Author Topic: ECL 2 on Aasimar and Tiefling  (Read 1236 times)

Insignia

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Re: ECL 2 on Aasimar and Tiefling
« Reply #75 on: July 13, 2018, 08:49:30 PM »
Hold on, I've never argued for ECL2 on Aasimar. I'm very firmly in favour of an Aasimar/Tiefling rework that makes them ECL1 but strips them of the extra Feat and Skills. If you're going to do that comparison, compare a level 19 Aasimar with a level 20 Human -- which I'm sure you'll agree is a lot more level. :P

Honestly, this was my intent on bringing this topic up as well. I just want to see them closer to what they are in PnP/on other servers. I know nothing about programming, but is this truly something that would be that difficult to achieve? It seems like we are at a point in the discussion where we should be evaluating options, perhaps someone can help me understand why this is not something that can be done?



I get where your coming from in all this, but honestly?  If those things are the most important things to the player, then they should play the race that allows for them.  If they are 'not' the most important thing, and they care more about the roleplay of the class, then that is what they'll focus on.

This is frankly a delicate balance.  Applications cant, as EO said, be artificially declined.  But the races are supposed to be very, very rare.  The gateway, it would seem, is that they are then going to be made mechanically *inferior* because if they were made mechanically superior there would be an inappropriate glut of them.  Theres no denying that.  As it is, they are instead aimed at players who dont care about what the character looks like at max level, who are the people (I assume) that play them.

I do wince at the pain levelling them must be, I really do.  But while these races might be weaker at the top end (keep in mind there is the merest handful of pcs at that top end) they 'are' stronger at the middle range, where most development happens.  A lvl 13 aasimar cleric is just flat better than a lvl 13 human cleric.  Same as a level 15 aasimar paladin and a level 15 human paladin.  They dont stay that way at the end but honestly, thats the price you pay.  If you dont want to pay it, then you go human and aim for the 20 mark rather than the midlevel mark.  You cant have your cake and eat it too, as it were.


Maybe so, but I think that there are people out there (Myself included) who didn't look into what our characters would be like in the mid-high level range. I honestly had no intention of even bringing my character this far, but now that I have, it seems more like a punishment than anything. If I had the option to take a remake as human, would I? You're damn right I would, in a heartbeat.

The notion of a race purposely being mechanically weaker to make them more rare seems like the wrong way to go about it in my opinion. Wouldn't a more strict application process (like the Hallowed Witch) be more effective? They are indeed overpowered, but also incredibly rare because you have to take things very, very seriously in order to ever be considered for approval.

Your comparison of an equivalent class level of an ECL race vs human is one that others have made already, and is simply flawed inherently. A level 13 aasimar cleric has an effective level of 15, while the human has an effective character level of 13. The Aasimar had to gain the amount of experience required for level 15 in order to achieve level 13. Furthermore he counts as a character with a class 2 levels higher to get that experience in the first place. Of course a character 2 levels higher is going to be stronger.

From my experience (I am currently a level 13 Aasimar paladin) There has been no point in the game where my human counterpart at the same effective level (2 class levels higher) wouldn't be stronger and better able to contribute to a party than my Aasimar, this gap only seems to widen at mid-high levels as classes begin to learn their strongest abilities, because for the ECL races, those abilities are much further out of reach.

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Re: ECL 2 on Aasimar and Tiefling
« Reply #76 on: July 16, 2018, 12:41:38 PM »
Honestly, this was my intent on bringing this topic up as well. I just want to see them closer to what they are in PnP/on other servers. I know nothing about programming, but is this truly something that would be that difficult to achieve? It seems like we are at a point in the discussion where we should be evaluating options, perhaps someone can help me understand why this is not something that can be done?

EO mentioned something about this previously on page 2 of this thread.

Adding races is fairly easy but there are some issues with it (mainly things like Favored Enemy and Race restrictions on items) and it'd require rewriting/updating many systems. We're not there yet but it's not impossible. I had considered adding Half Vistani as a new race this hak update but ran into a few hurdles so decided to scrap it for now.
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Iridni Ren

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Re: ECL 2 on Aasimar and Tiefling
« Reply #77 on: July 16, 2018, 01:05:44 PM »
Adding races is fairly easy but there are some issues with it (mainly things like Favored Enemy and Race restrictions on items) and it'd require rewriting/updating many systems. We're not there yet but it's not impossible. I had considered adding Half Vistani as a new race this hak update but ran into a few hurdles so decided to scrap it for now.

Aren't Half Vistani already a race?

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Re: ECL 2 on Aasimar and Tiefling
« Reply #78 on: July 16, 2018, 03:49:12 PM »
Aren't Half Vistani already a race?

Like Aasimar, they're effectively a template that gets applied on top of regular humans. They also benefit from the Extra Feat and Skills of humans, when I believe that by PnP they don't.
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