Author Topic: Double RP XP areas  (Read 5882 times)

APorg

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Double RP XP areas
« on: May 03, 2018, 07:09:38 AM »
So here's a thought, perhaps some of the recent feedback over RP XP being too low could be answered by creating specific areas, where the team wants to encourage people to congregrate, that deliver double RP XP.

Some such places could be:

 - The Broken Bell
 - The Drain
 - The slums Morninglord Church (_not_ the Outskirts Church, for obvious reasons)
 - The Ezrite Refuge of Fifth Light
 - The Great Library in Port
 - The Golden Fig and a few other cafes and eateries in Port
 - The Halan Hospices in Port
 - The Ezrite Cathedral in Port

etc. etc. etc.

Just some ideas.

If not a 100% boost, then perhaps at least a 50% boost?
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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2018, 07:18:11 AM »
Even a 25% boost for specific areas like taverns and generally safe places across the module would be superb. Excellent suggestion.

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 07:49:15 AM »
Speaking as a player, I am against that, RP XP is already much better than people think and I make a lot of my XP, if not most, like that. Yes it's long, but RP'ing frquently gives a lot more XP than one would think. I wouldn't want to see people leveling faster than the current rate, specially not in low level place like Vallaki.

I also recall something similar being asked for the the Vallaki Guard specifically since  most of them never dungeon and only get XP through DM and RP and it was refused. I later realized that, gaining more level had very little to do with the fun you can have here. You can still do a lot of thing even if you're a low level.

Personally, I don't think any kind of bonus to the RP XP is necessary, but the only I could possibly see is, character above a certain level, RP'ing outside of Barovia getting a little bonus to their RP XP to encourage them leaving Vallaki and Barovia.

Other than that, I wouldn't want to see RP XP getting better than what it currently is because I think it's already pretty good from I experienced and also because I don't think getting level faster is what we're really after here.
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APorg

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 07:50:30 AM »
Some more areas that could merit being a double (or boosted) RP XP area:

 - Degannwy
 - Dvergeheim
 - The Fishing Lodge on the north shore of the lake
 - The rest house in Har'akir
 - NOT THE MIST CAMP (for obvious reasons)

and so on
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 07:55:14 AM by aprogressivist »
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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2018, 07:53:30 AM »
Interesting. Surprised nobody has ever thought of that until now.
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APorg

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2018, 07:54:10 AM »
Speaking as a player, I am against that, RP XP is already much better than people think and I make a lot of my XP, if not most, like that. Yes it's long, but RP'ing frquently gives a lot more XP than one would think. I wouldn't want to see people leveling faster than the current rate, specially not in low level place like Vallaki.

I don't really want to argue about the premise on which my suggestion is founded. If you don't think that RP XP is too low these days, fair enough; judging by the other thread, however, you're in the minority.

Quote
the only I could possibly see is, character above a certain level, RP'ing outside of Barovia getting a little bonus to their RP XP to encourage them leaving Vallaki and Barovia.

This is effectively already in place.
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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2018, 10:40:25 AM »
While I see merit to both sides, I think ultimately it could be good. POTM is a ROLEPLAY server, offering a boon to certain areas could really be good. I can see it encouraging players to explore in these areas, and possibly even encourage more people to join factions.

I do see a downside of it making levelling up too easy, but that could be fixed by making it even a small boost like 5-10%. Or if it was possible make it sliding to adjust the amount extra based on your level. For example say there is a base of 10%, you get a character who is like level 10 the amount could decrease to I don't know 7, and then at 15 to 5, where it would level out?

There are tons of neat places to RP and a boost to the xp gained there could encourage a lot more exploration and less lingering in the mist camp or outskirts.
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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2018, 10:43:03 AM »
I’d highly suggest double RP in Port. The domain severely lacks dungeons, and it would be a great way to counter that, in my opinion.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 12:17:14 PM by Dumas »

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2018, 11:14:21 AM »
So here's a thought, perhaps some of the recent feedback over RP XP being too low could be answered by creating specific areas, where the team wants to encourage people to congregrate, that deliver double RP XP.

Some such places could be:

 - The Broken Bell
 - The Drain
 - The slums Morninglord Church (_not_ the Outskirts Church, for obvious reasons)
 - The Ezrite Refuge of Fifth Light
 - The Great Library in Port
 - The Golden Fig and a few other cafes and eateries in Port
 - The Halan Hospices in Port
 - The Ezrite Cathedral in Port

etc. etc. etc.

Just some ideas.

If not a 100% boost, then perhaps at least a 50% boost?

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2018, 11:40:20 AM »
Even a 25% boost for specific areas like taverns and generally safe places across the module would be superb. Excellent suggestion.

I’d highly suggest double RP in Port. The domain severely lacks dungeons, and I would be a great way to counter that, in my opinion.

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2018, 12:25:35 PM »
The easiest tweak and most in line with Soren's original and expressed goal in implementing the current system is to give increased XP when the *opposite* condition is met. That is, Soren says the system is to increase player segregation between low levels and high levels.

Low levels do not receive any penalty for interacting with high levels, only high levels do. Moreover, high levels require much more XP to level period, so as time goes by RP XP is less and less useful for levelling. (I say all this in preface so that my suggestion is not taken as unfair.)

To state it plainly, when the ticker goes off, it already checks the PC's level and then compares it to the average level recorded in the area. It would seem pretty simple, then, if the opposite is true--the PC is of sufficiently high level and has been RPing in an area appropriate to her level--she receives an XP boost.

This doesn't benefit low levels, but neither are low levels being currently penalized. If the idea is to segregate the player base, creating areas with increased RP XP won't accomplish that, I think. Low levels will want to be there as well for obvious reasons.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 12:27:08 PM by Iridni Ren »

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APorg

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2018, 12:44:13 PM »
To state it plainly, when the ticker goes off, it already checks the PC's level and then compares it to the average level recorded in the area. It would seem pretty simple, then, if the opposite is true--the PC is of sufficiently high level and has been RPing in an area appropriate to her level--she receives an XP boost.

This doesn't benefit low levels, but neither are low levels being currently penalized. If the idea is to segregate the player base, creating areas with increased RP XP won't accomplish that, I think. Low levels will want to be there as well for obvious reasons.

This is a blunt instrument. I don't think anyone should be getting bonus RP XP for hanging around in the Mist Camp, whether they're running away from low levels or not.

Specifically the question here is one of themes, and what places enhance those themes. Hanging around the Blood of the Vine in the village of VoB is thematic; faction play or IC cultural play in places where native PCs hang out is thematic; native religious RP is thematic; all these things ought to be rewarded.

Hanging out at the Mist Camp because I'm hoping I might find people to go dungeon with isn't particularly thematic.
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Iridni Ren

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2018, 12:54:59 PM »
To state it plainly, when the ticker goes off, it already checks the PC's level and then compares it to the average level recorded in the area. It would seem pretty simple, then, if the opposite is true--the PC is of sufficiently high level and has been RPing in an area appropriate to her level--she receives an XP boost.

This doesn't benefit low levels, but neither are low levels being currently penalized. If the idea is to segregate the player base, creating areas with increased RP XP won't accomplish that, I think. Low levels will want to be there as well for obvious reasons.

This is a blunt instrument. I don't think anyone should be getting bonus RP XP for hanging around in the Mist Camp, whether they're running away from low levels or not.

Specifically the question here is one of themes, and what places enhance those themes. Hanging around the Blood of the Vine in the village of VoB is thematic; faction play or IC cultural play in places where native PCs hang out is thematic; native religious RP is thematic; all these things ought to be rewarded.

Hanging out at the Mist Camp because I'm hoping I might find people to go dungeon with isn't particularly thematic.

*shrugs*

That may all be how you feel, but it pretty much ignores everything that this debate is actually about. It's not about whose RP is useful and thematic, based on the geographical location of where it's occurring.

1) If my suggestion is a "blunt instrument," then so is the current XP cap as they function exactly the same.

2) The instrument you suggest would perform an entirely different surgery than what is prescribed. That is, the problem is getting players to interact with others of the appropriate level so that area content and events can be appropriate to the level of the players in those areas. Your reasoning would make sense if the therapy were meant to drive players to certain areas in preference to others, but that's not the underlying condition needing treatment.

3) Your instrument requires cutting in many, many places that we can all debate about the importance of and have varying opinions about and the fairness of. This is a single stroke that fixes precisely the problem that the previous operation has created.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 12:57:06 PM by Iridni Ren »

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APorg

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2018, 01:10:43 PM »
Iridni, I appreciate that you like to be a contrarian, but it's rather rude to come in and tell me what my own thread is about.

This is not a thread about the broader RP XP debate, though it is related to it. This is a thread about my idea: "perhaps some of the recent feedback over RP XP being too low could be answered by creating specific areas, where the team wants to encourage people to congregrate, that deliver double RP XP".

It is totally legitimate therefore for me to ask whether a dude hanging out in the Mist Camp ought to earn as much RP XP as a dude hanging out at the Blood of the Vine. I think no: I think we ought to give the dude in the Blood of the Vine more RP XP because we want people to hang out there instead of the Mist Camp.

Quote
1) If my suggestion is a "blunt instrument," then so is the current XP cap as they function exactly the same.

If I were interested in defending the current RP XP system, maybe I'd have posted in your own thread about it.

Quote
That is, the problem is getting players to interact with others of the appropriate level so that area content and events can be appropriate to the level of the players in those areas. Your reasoning would make sense if the therapy were meant to drive players to certain areas in preference to others, but that's not the underlying condition needing treatment.

I reject the argument for segregation because:
a) I don't believe that's actually the DM team's explicit goal (they want to move high levels out of low level areas; that is distinctly different from preventing low and high levels from congregation)
b) I think segregation is very unhealthy for the server anyway. Can you imagine the kind of OOC behaviour this encourages? Low levels asking high levels to leave OOC and vice versa; players avoiding each other because of level difference.

Please drop the issue or start your own thread.
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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2018, 01:12:04 PM »
I like the idea of encouraging roleplay in taverns, churches, etc. What was written in the OP sounds neato.
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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2018, 02:39:50 PM »
I like the idea of encouraging roleplay in taverns, churches, etc. What was written in the OP sounds neato.

I like the encouraging aspect too but I think it should be in some manner aside from doubling the RP XP. Maybe we can just loosen the RP XP system a little for places like this so you don't get completely locked out of the RP XP when you are sheltering for the night.
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APorg

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2018, 03:11:37 PM »
I like the encouraging aspect too but I think it should be in some manner aside from doubling the RP XP. Maybe we can just loosen the RP XP system a little for places like this so you don't get completely locked out of the RP XP when you are sheltering for the night.

What do you mean, loosening the RP XP system? Only for Western Barovia is there any kind of RP XP penalty....
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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2018, 03:44:13 PM »
There isn't a penalty anywhere. You just don't get a bonus. It's not the same thing. What I meant is that maybe when the RP XP system checks for the average level characters in the area, that it allows for a slightly larger level range when giving out RP XP in places like inns where folks congregate at night or socially, especially those places away from the Outskirts.
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APorg

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2018, 04:06:14 PM »
There isn't a penalty anywhere. You just don't get a bonus. It's not the same thing.

Semantics. If I reduced your salary bonus at work, you'd call it a penalty.

Quote
What I meant is that maybe when the RP XP system checks for the average level characters in the area, that it allows for a slightly larger level range when giving out RP XP in places like inns where folks congregate at night or socially, especially those places away from the Outskirts.

This would work at cross purposes of the RP XP penalty, however. This would help create "safe spots" where high levels can buck the trend of the intention of the reduced RP XP.  That's a boon for high levels in western Barovia and nothing else.
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ethinos

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2018, 04:12:28 PM »
No, I wouldn't but I would probably look for employment else. And it isn't semantics. If it were a penalty, you'd lose your existing XP for continued roleplaying. And yes, it's kind of working against the purpose of the reduced RP XP bonus system but I think that if higher levels were in the area, being stuck in an inn or church or other common social gathering area is better than a spot like the outskirts where DMs may want to hold level targeted encounters.
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APorg

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2018, 04:26:42 PM »
No, I wouldn't but I would probably look for employment else. And it isn't semantics. If it were a penalty, you'd lose your existing XP for continued roleplaying.

It's pure semantics. Expect to argue around in circles if you continue to press the point.

Quote
And yes, it's kind of working against the purpose of the reduced RP XP bonus system but I think that if higher levels were in the area, being stuck in an inn or church or other common social gathering area is better than a spot like the outskirts where DMs may want to hold level targeted encounters.

Meh. If you concede that encouraging high levels to congregate in RP areas in Western Barovia may be good idea, why then not extend the logic to all levels and all areas?
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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2018, 04:37:01 PM »
So here's a thought, perhaps some of the recent feedback over RP XP being too low could be answered by creating specific areas, where the team wants to encourage people to congregrate, that deliver double RP XP.

Some such places could be:

 - The Broken Bell
 - The Drain
 - The slums Morninglord Church (_not_ the Outskirts Church, for obvious reasons)
 - The Ezrite Refuge of Fifth Light
 - The Great Library in Port
 - The Golden Fig and a few other cafes and eateries in Port
 - The Halan Hospices in Port
 - The Ezrite Cathedral in Port

etc. etc. etc.

Just some ideas.

If not a 100% boost, then perhaps at least a 50% boost?

Completely on board with this.

The existing XP cap system is written in such a way as to discourage too much dungeoning, presumably because they want people to spend more time role-playing. Instead of the stick (Capping your potential gains into oblivion) some carrot would make the medicine easier to swallow.* Anything that boosts RP XP is a good thing, in my opinion.

*Malaphors are the best.



ethinos

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2018, 05:21:33 PM »
It's pure semantics. Expect to argue around in circles if you continue to press the point.
The difference is the tone. If it were truly a penalty, you'd be suffering for your continued roleplaying. Since it's not that at all, you (and many others) are just not happy that you aren't get free XP for essentially doing nothing. I don't have much sympathy for that.

Quote
Meh. If you concede that encouraging high levels to congregate in RP areas in Western Barovia may be good idea, why then not extend the logic to all levels and all areas?

No, I am not encouraging that at all. I am encouraging congregations of all PCs to roleplay elsewhere, indoors, with reduced RP XP going to higher levels in certain instances.
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APorg

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2018, 05:37:53 PM »
It's pure semantics. Expect to argue around in circles if you continue to press the point.
The difference is the tone.

"Reduced bonus" just sounds better than "penalty to the bonus". Pure semantics. Glad we're on the same page.

Quote
Quote
Meh. If you concede that encouraging high levels to congregate in RP areas in Western Barovia may be good idea, why then not extend the logic to all levels and all areas?

No, I am not encouraging that at all. I am encouraging congregations of all PCs to roleplay elsewhere, indoors, with reduced RP XP going to higher levels in certain instances.

No, you are incentivising high levels in West Barovia to congregate in certain areas. They're the only ones who would benefit by side-stepping the penalty. Everyone else is otherwise unaffected and just faces all the usual incentives to congregate together or not, the fact that there'll be a few high levels around notwithstanding.

I don't even get what you're trying to say anymore. Do you believe RP XP bonuses or penalties are incentives to behaviour or not? Do you think people should preferably congregate in certain areas over others? I believe the answer to both these questions is yes; and I think you do too, except when I ask you to follow where the logic takes us.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 05:42:54 PM by aprogressivist »
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ethinos

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Re: Double RP XP areas
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2018, 06:47:11 PM »
I'm actually coming around to the belief that only low levels should get RP XP at all. New characters and new players need the incentive to roleplay/network and could use the extra gift of RP XP. Everyone else should be roleplaying anyways.
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