Author Topic: Pre-Packaged Powder and Bullet  (Read 1441 times)

BraveSirRobin

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Pre-Packaged Powder and Bullet
« on: March 29, 2018, 06:20:30 PM »
So, recently within the last few years I've noticed that we have, albeit in a very small manner, expanded upon some of the firearms items. We included Powder Horns, which.. Serve no purpose except perhaps to shave a little weight, and I have heard - but not witnessed - that we have some scripts introduced for blunderbusses, but it's widely ineffective in comparison to say, a regular black powder firearm. It takes two turns to reload a pistol, to fire and on the wide average, do 30-40 damage for every two turns if we assume the individual is carrying a single one, or, 30 damage per turn if we assume the individual is carrying an irrelevant number of black powder firearms on his or her person, that they are then cycling.

I can understand there is an effort to try to represent how slowly a pistol fires, but what most people often overlook is the fact that the kind of heavier crossbows that NWN represents are essentially Windlass Crossbows, which you carried an apparatus with you to reload and wind the bow back, then you placed a bolt and fired between 300lb and 1,000 lb draw-strength. This was the weapon that largely left firearms largely out of favor in the battlefield for unskilled soldiers until the renaissance/early modern period. It took just as long to reload as a black powder firearm, if not a little longer to a trained shooter.

Currently in NWN, we have a Light Crossbow and a Heavy Crossbow. These both would take extraordinarily longer than a Longbow/Shortbow to fire, but the way we get around that is a simple feat called Rapid Reload, which magically allows them to somehow draw their crossbows and fire them up to four, or hasted, five times within a six second period for a full BAB class.

So why are we still left with the rather pointless mechanic of loading a bullet, then the powder - then shooting the firearm, when we have settings that exist in which firearms are dominant? I would love to see more characters who use black powder beyond the novelty, because we utilize flintlock firearms.

I'd personally like to see the damage per shot of flintlocks brought into a more controllable range, and allow them to be fired more often, as a viable combat method for a character that isn't .. Before a certain somebody shows up .. A gun-wizard who buffs his/her bullets and can only manage to use them through an extremely tedious and ultimately unduly process. I would suggest, if nothing else would change, to include an item in the game that performs the action of loading both powder and bullet simultaneously that could be created through the crafting system or purchased at a store. By the time we have flintlocks, people have figured out how to put powder and ball in a cartridge, where the process is just biting off the top of the cartridge, pouring some powder in the firing pan, pouring the rest down the barrel, shoving the ball down, then ramming it down, pulling the hammer back and firing. By comparison, what we are currently doing is.. Taking a bag of powder, pouring a loose amount of powder down the barrel (which is dangerous) and then pouring a loose amount of powder in the firing pan (which is dangerous) then, reaching for a separate bag with bullets in them, to take a separate wad of cloth, wrap the bullet, then ram it down.

Of course, if we could just remove that all together and make a firearms system that worked by actually shooting them in combat with some VFX, I'd be ever happier!  :lol:


POST NOTE:

Here's an example.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 06:24:27 PM by BraveSirRobin »

wildflame

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Re: Pre-Packaged Powder and Bullet
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2018, 11:12:26 PM »
Oh man, that'd be amazing.

Phantasia

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Re: Pre-Packaged Powder and Bullet
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2018, 11:19:12 PM »
I counted a generous 14 seconds. It takes just as long, if not shorter, to do the same loading routine in the game.

For the sake of making firearms more "viable", I could go for a one round long loading process instead of two.

I still think things are fine the way they are, though, as much as I have been calling for more firearm-related feats.
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Dumas

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Re: Pre-Packaged Powder and Bullet
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2018, 11:34:30 PM »
I'd settle for some more firearm variety (such as more than one musket)...

But speeding it up would be a good thing, I think. If we are trying to go for realism in loading times, they should at least go somewhat faster to be balanced out with crossbows and longbows/short bows (which you can't fire as fast in real life effectively as is portrayed in the game bows)

EO

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Re: Pre-Packaged Powder and Bullet
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2018, 11:52:10 PM »
Mmm, a Fast Reload feat for pistols wouldn't be a bad idea.

ViktorYouFool

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Re: Pre-Packaged Powder and Bullet
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2018, 02:55:03 AM »
Mmm, a Fast Reload feat for pistols wouldn't be a bad idea.

One I've frequently thought about might be a Careful Handling or.. Firearms Training feat. Something that reduced the chance of misfire.



BraveSirRobin

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Re: Pre-Packaged Powder and Bullet
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2018, 07:24:04 AM »
I counted a generous 14 seconds. It takes just as long, if not shorter, to do the same loading routine in the game.

For the sake of making firearms more "viable", I could go for a one round long loading process instead of two.

I still think things are fine the way they are, though, as much as I have been calling for more firearm-related feats.


Sure. 14 seconds, and it takes 12 seconds in-game. However, keep in mind that the Heavy Crossbow and Light Crossbow are weapons that are similarly, if not more complicated (emphasis on more) historically, and fire at speeds equivalent to a longbow in NWN. The only represented difference between the two is the inclusion of a feat for firing one extra arrow per round on a bow, versus the Crossbow.

Crossbows were basically just firearms before firearms became reliable enough to use on the battlefield with impunity. Once they were reliable enough, Crossbows were completely phased out over time in favor of handguns, because they both function as being simple weapons the common man can learn to use effectively in a relatively small amount of time, that can do a lot of damage. They were both feared and revered historically for this particular reason.


This, is a Windlass Crossbow - Arguably the most effective and commonplace 'Heavy' Crossbow design. It requires a wench system to pull the string back so that you can load the crossbow, a separate mechanism to carry with you. Other methods of winding the string were available, as well, but it all works like a bicycle's peddles on a very low gear. You turn your hand for ten, twenty times in a circle to cock the bow, then you detach the system, and place the bolt, then fire.

I have included some videos of people loading and firing period crossbows. In NWN, there's a wench on the front of every heavy crossbow that I guess is supposed to imitate a built-in Windlass, somehow, or something. Who the heck knows, it's NWN, there's studded leather. None of this makes sense, Greatsword weigh 20lbs. Inconsistencies with DnD.


Windlass
Another mechanism that is just more expensive and less useful.

So if we're saying, "Well it takes about as much time as it takes IG to do this, as real-life," I think we need to acknowledge that Neverwinter Nights does not take place in that timescale and that other weapons that would abide by the same laws do not. But I'm not suggesting we make Pistols utilize the number of attacks per round a player has. I frankly think that would be unrealistic.

But when you spend one round to powder, one round to use ball, one round to fire, for what they do, it's sort of silly. I'd just like to find a way- whether it's a feat, or an item, or what have you, to be able to reload in one round. Atleast then it could be something fun to use in dungeons that wouldn't force the party to pause for roughly 12-15 seconds every time you shoot your weapon. For PvP, if you're actually wanting to use pistols for PvP, you bring a brace of them (..A number of pistols, in otherwords) and fire them off in succession, once per round until you're out, then attack, which is a method that would remain either way.