New format for NCE suggestion

[APorg]

Just wanted to throw an idea out there for a new format for NCE.

Normally the Svalich pass is closed, simply cutting off the server in half: western Barovia for the NCE area, and the rest of the server for regular play. However the emergence of Krofburg as its distinct area creates a bit of disharmony: Krofburg's whole shtick is that it's kinda isolated, so its PC population to suddenly been uprooted for the duration of the NCE event was mildly jarring.

Therefore I'd like to propose that there may be a new configuration worth exploring -- as long as the Krofburg storyline continues. Removing Krofburg from the NCE area (by making a few of the ravine bridges un-navigable) into its own separate thing while extending the NCE area to include the village of Barovia. In short, there would be three "areas":

- NCE area of most of Barovia (would require to stop Vistani Caravans to and from Barovia for the duration as well as sealing the Mist Path).
- Krofburg (only PCs who have a spawn point there can stay for the duration; anybody who leaves must go to the Mist Camp).
- The rest of the server (usual area minus the VoB area).

Obviously this would require a bit more work since we're now talking about blocking off three paths instead of just one. But I think this is a nice idea to explore for a couple of reasons:

 - it brings the Village of Barovia into the NCE area, which I think would be amazing. NCEs are about getting back to the basics of Ravenloft gothic horror, and it doesn't really get much more Ravenloft than the village. (This idea may be worth exploring irrespective of the rest; I think it stands independently.)
 - it reinforces the isolation of Krofburg for the duration of the NCE event, and allows it to continue to pursue its own stories.
 - It's a fresh take on the usual NCE formula; mixes things up a little. Yes, it means NCE characters can't run back and forth from Krofburg doing deliveries. But is that really a bad thing? You can level up characters that way any other time of the year.

Anyway, just a thought to throw out there and see what sticks.

[Pav]

I like the suggestion about Krofburg but I would keep VoB out. Some of those dungeons are easily ninjalootable and would bring in imbalanced loot to a lowbie experience -- while one might argue some places in the regular NCE zone offer similar bias, you can't realistically loot them as a level 3 as you may things beyond the Svalich Pass.

Obviously, this is just by my own experience of the content, so I may be wrong.

[Tycat]

We do have Berez and Wachter lands, so I don't see the need to include VOB, but I do like the idea of locking out of Krofburg. A landslide of rocks and boulders would make sense, since the "roads are dangerous."

[peps]

Totally decimate early leveling for weak early classes by removing the Krofburg delivery route.

Unless we open new delivery jobs to accessible places, I can't see this being reasonable.

[EO]

Totally decimate early leveling for weak early classes by removing the Krofburg delivery route.

Unless we open new delivery jobs to accessible places, I can't see this being reasonable.

You do realize we've had many NCE's before either Krofburg or the Krofburg delivery quests (or even delivery quests at all) were added and people were fine?

[Pav]

I agree with EO, Krofburg deliveries actually lessen the experience of the NCE where shared narrative between low levels and AMPCs should be the focus; not quickly making a lot of money and free experience.

[peps]

I agree with EO, Krofburg deliveries actually lessen the experience of the NCE where shared narrative between low levels and AMPCs should be the focus; not quickly making a lot of money and free experience.

While I agree as my most memorable NCE's were just that, multiple people have shared their concern of a lessened full and enjoyable NCE's the past few before the last (which I didn't participate in, I believe?).

My own opinion, but recent NCE's come off as ways to level with players near your level (aside from Tycat's barbarian group that one NCE) more than anything hence my belief it'll really damper the NCE experience by cutting out a key delivery destination.

[Pav]

All of the former NCEs were improvements over themselves with how good the story and PC involvement was. I enjoyed every single one more than the last. Again, my opinion, but I know there's more than a few people that would vocalize the same. It's a non-issue.

[APorg]

My own opinion, but recent NCE's come off as ways to level with players near your level (aside from Tycat's barbarian group that one NCE) more than anything hence my belief it'll really damper the NCE experience by cutting out a key delivery destination.

This is removed for everyone, though. It means no solo runs to Krofburg, thus the most reliable way of making XP is dungeoning in a party.

[APorg]

We do have Berez and Wachter lands, so I don't see the need to include VOB

I think I wouldn't really see it through the prism of size of area, but in terms of the themes. Though Berez and Wachter lands are cool and well built, they're not central to the Ravenloft mythos in the way the village is. Part of NCE, IMO, is getting to that distilled thematic essence. Of course it's possible to still have a great NCE without it, as the past has shown, but I definitely see pluses of allowing the NCE area to include the Village.

(I've never tried to ninja loot the area tho.)

[RedwizardD]

I really like the idea of VoB being part of a NCW event. IT might actualyl be interesting to flesh out stories in that region..

[peps]

My own opinion, but recent NCE's come off as ways to level with players near your level (aside from Tycat's barbarian group that one NCE) more than anything hence my belief it'll really damper the NCE experience by cutting out a key delivery destination.

This is removed for everyone, though. It means no solo runs to Krofburg, thus the most reliable way of making XP is dungeoning in a party.

Go with another person. If you start the delivery immediately at 6 and just walk and talk, you can make the trip back, too. XP from deliveries and RP is the best, safest early leveling for people like rogues or casters.

If the VoB route is taken to replace Krofburg, what about plot locking the dungeons that have entry points (e.g. wererat den)? Makes it impossible to ninjaloot, while also letting VoB still be a place to hold stories for during the NCE.

[Iridni Ren]

I agree with EO, Krofburg deliveries actually lessen the experience of the NCE where shared narrative between low levels and AMPCs should be the focus; not quickly making a lot of money and free experience.

+1

Go with another person. If you start the delivery immediately at 6 and just walk and talk, you can make the trip back, too. XP from deliveries and RP is the best, safest early leveling for people like rogues or casters.

Although this is true, it's true all the time, meaning anyone can start a new PC whenever and do this. Why use the opportunity that NCE represents to do it?

In the last NCE I thought because of the AMPC that camped out along the Krofburg run, it was fine and kept everything from being too concentrated in the Western Outskirts. So I'm not sold that the delivery quests to K-burg need to be removed, but I hope no one spends NCE running back and forth grinding. Suspiria wound up doing that a lot and my experience was she missed out on much of the point of NCE.

[RedwizardD]

If the VoB route is taken to replace Krofburg, what about plot locking the dungeons that have entry points (e.g. wererat den)? Makes it impossible to ninjaloot, while also letting VoB still be a place to hold stories for during the NCE.

Hey that's a pretty good idea!

[peps]

Although this is true, it's true all the time, meaning anyone can start a new PC whenever and do this. Why use the opportunity that NCE represents to do it?

I think you might be underplaying it a bit. While surely anyone can make a new PC, you need another willingly and similarly leveled PC to go along with you to enjoy the RP XP. That's harder than you think to make happen outside a NCE.

The alternative is sticking with people and leveling via dungeons to stay relevant. As a rogue or caster, you're practically deadweight early levels and will be ignored for it because a NCE provides choice for parties rather than taking who you can for parties like it is post-NCE.

I don't want to come off as hating anything related to the NCE's, but this is just the reality of things. This is also coming from someone who rarely cares to dungeon. I can only imagine the pain of people who want to play strong, action-involved characters.

[APorg]

A caster is never irrelevant. A level 2 wizard can provide Shield for +4 deflection AC. That's huge during a NCE, and that's just one spell. Get one level under your belt (and you can do that RPing in an inn) and you'll have access to Invisibility, and be able to slip past most things in the area. A level 2 cleric can provide Shield of Faith (which isn't as good as Shield, but is something), Bless, Magic Weapon, the much under-used Remove Fear, or simple healing.

I'll grant the level 2 rogue is going to suffer a bit against all those undead, but they still have their role; to paraphrase a saying, they don't need to be stealthy enough to avoid being spotted by the enemy, they just need to be stealthier than the paladin.

It just feels like a very narrow interest that you're actually defending here, and one I feel that doesn't gel with the main principle of NCE.

[Tycat]

There are a ton new delivery quests to areas other than Krofburg.

[peps]

A caster is never irrelevant. A level 2 wizard can provide Shield for +4 deflection AC. That's huge during a NCE, and that's just one spell. Get one level under your belt (and you can do that RPing in an inn) and you'll have access to Invisibility, and be able to slip past most things in the area. A level 2 cleric can provide Shield of Faith (which isn't as good as Shield, but is something), Bless, Magic Weapon, the much under-used Remove Fear, or simple healing.

I'll grant the level 2 rogue is going to suffer a bit against all those undead, but they still have their role; to paraphrase a saying, they don't need to be stealthy enough to avoid being spotted by the enemy, they just need to be stealthier than the paladin.

It just feels like a very narrow interest that you're actually defending here, and one I feel that doesn't gel with the main principle of NCE.

I should have specified by "caster" I meant strictly wizards and sorcs given their low HP pool and horrid AB progression; early levels where that bit of AC bump is outweighed by the ability to just beat something to death so it doesn't hurt you. Regardless, I do stand by my position given recent NCE's, as I mentioned before. Rather than being the DM plot and AMPC heavy event that people want it to be, it now feels more so like a way to start a new character more comfortably. It was described just as that last NCE, or at least how I perceive it; "...those unfamiliar with the concept, this is an event where all participants roll up entirely new characters*, providing an equal start for all in an exclusively low level environment".

Once again, simply my opinion on the matter. Krofburg deliveries did and do help alleviate the growing pains for some classes while still injecting roleplay, if you took the route I mentioned. Few other delivery routes do that that I can think of. Also, I think what should also be kept in mind is that dungeons have a reset time. With the NCE attracting a steady 60ish players who almost all are participating in the NCE, it's quite hard to get much out of the dungeons at a certain point.

In sum, I think easing back on the Krofburg plot for a week won't hurt anyone too much. If anything, a summer NCE seems best given other juicy plots going on and maybe the Krofburg plot will be close to an end around then.

There are a ton new delivery quests to areas other than Krofburg.

The Drain ones? Personally haven't played with them. Are they accessible enough for low level PC's?

[Iridni Ren]

Arawn has said he plans to add more quests, but of the current I'd say Krofburg is the lynchpin because of having both the Tent City (with two drops and pickups I know of) and the village proper (with 1 drop and 3 pickups that I know of).

The quests to Berez, Wachter Estate (2 drops and pickups), and Krezk Outpost aren't as lucrative unless you're boomeranging eventually to K-burg.

Also, if memory serves me, you might not be able to double up on some of those, making it less likely a companion will want to go all the way to these places with you for no extra XP and...half of 100 gold.

[peps]

Arawn has said he plans to add more quests, but of the current I'd say Krofburg is the lynchpin because of having both the Tent City (with two drops and pickups I know of) and the village proper (with 1 drop and 3 pickups that I know of).

The quests to Berez, Wachter Estate (2 drops and pickups), and Krezk Outpost aren't as lucrative unless you're boomeranging eventually to K-burg.

Also, if memory serves me, you might not be able to double up on some of those, making it less likely a companion will want to go all the way to these places with you for no extra XP and...half of 100 gold.

Bit of a shame. Personally, I wouldn't mind a long walk somewhere if it meant being able to double up on them and have access to returning shipments. The lack of returning shipments is what frankly ruins other places like Dvergeheim (which I think has no delivery opportunities?).

[Arawn]

The Krofburg plot will survive being shut down for a week. Just gives everyone a chance to enjoy the NCE.

[RedwizardD]

There are delivery quests to the fishing lodge and wizard tower too.

[Iridni Ren]

There are delivery quests to the fishing lodge and wizard tower too.

I addressed only the new deliveries because I assumed everyone knows about the golden oldies

I've never done the Wizard Tower delivery, though, but my feeling is that it would be impossible for 2nd levels.

[ASymphony]

Having just recently made one, hit wizard level 3 and you are absolutely golden, if you know what you are doing.

[Norture]

Was a new NCE announced that I missed?