Author Topic: Disguise System  (Read 878 times)

GeneralBonobo

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Disguise System
« on: December 23, 2017, 04:16:34 PM »
So I'm not entirely sure how often this has been brought up, or if at all, but if think it would be rather useful to have a functioning disguise system on this server similar to the one on Arelith. Now, you might be asking, "But why do we need one" and the relatively simple answer is that most people don't seem to realize when others are disguising themselves or not, and there is also the issue of people metagaming who people are just because their names float above their head.

For those unaware the disguise system on Arelith is a command '@disguise' at which point you can enter any name you'd like. However, there are some issues with the system, such as people still being able to see your portrait and log in to determine who you are, or things such as people not even bothering to change their appearance when disguising. I do however believe the benefit of having the system and at least signifying that you are attempting to disguise yourself would be greater than some of the faults with it.

Naturally however I have no idea how much effort it would take to implement such a system but it would be a nice thing to consider for a future update.

Arawn

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2017, 04:27:54 PM »
The real issue is it requires LETO, which we don't currently have working.
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Silas Rotleaf

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2017, 12:24:40 PM »
I would love to see that but yeah, my gut says it would be kinda tricky to implement.
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ladylena

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2017, 01:38:05 PM »
Currently, we have masks, so that should help to disguise in the meantime. Another way you can do it (which is what I do) is just give a brief emote when I encounter people so they know that the character is in disguise. However an actual system for it would be cool, perhaps even a simple toggle that displays next to your name "disguised"

Silas Rotleaf

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2017, 04:37:31 PM »
We can always change our character descriptions for being incognito but when you highlight or tab it still shows their true name so kinda have to turn off LFRP mode and hope folks will just suspend their disbelief to play along... for now.
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Always_a_hero

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2017, 11:49:38 PM »
Well if I had an idea to present, it would be that the command would work like the @mark command, in which you'd do "@disguise [new name] <Followed by new description>" instead of "@mark [name of mark] <followed by description>". For the problem with checking the player's list, maybe it'd need to "hide" the player's presence in the so said list, or just change the character's name in the list itself. Maybe it could also block the player's pseudo if someone click on the profile picture, which would be replaced by the boring brown face of male or female, depending on the gender.

HOWEVER... The main problem of this system would be how balanced it is, in the sense of discovering the identity of the disguised character. My suggestion would be to include rolls in the whole thing. There are a lot of factors which could affect one's disguise, often depending from person to person... But the skills which made the more sense to me were Perform and Influence. I'd keep it down to one skill to not go into the extremes, which would be Influence over Perform, since Influence includes 14 classes and Perform only covers 4 over the 20 supported classes.

List as follow:
Quote
Spoiler: show

Perform Classes: Bard - Monk - Rogue - Shadow Dancer

Influence Classes: Bard - Druid - Paladin - Sorcerer - Cleric - Monk - Rogue - Assassin - Blackguard - Divine Champion - Pale Master - Red Dragon Disciple - Shadow Dancer - Shifter

I'd give an advantage for people using the @disguise, such as setting the DC as follow:

Disguise DC = 15 + (influence_mod), since people are not generally prepare to meet a disguised person...

What about the counter roll? Well, the three main perception skills would be Concentration, Spot and Listen, which affects 15, 11 and 14 classes respectively as followed:

Quote
Spoiler: show


Concentration Proficiency: Bard - Cleric - Druid - Fighter - Monk - Paladin - Ranger - Sorcerer - Wizard - Blackguard - Divine Champion - Dwarven Defender - Pale Master - Red Dragon Disciple - Shifter

Spot Proficiency: Druid - Monk - Ranger - Rogue - Arcane Archer - Assassin - Dwarven Defender - Red Dragon Disciple - Shadow Dancer - Shifter - Weapon Master

Listen Proficiency: Barbarian - Bard - Druid - Monk - Ranger - Rogue - Arcane Archer - Assassin - Dwarven Defender - Pale Master - Red Dragon Disciple - Shadow Dancer - Shifter - Weapon Master

As far as I've seen skills be rolled, most people counters an influence check using Concentration, as to pierce through the gesture and acts of a lying person... Which makes less sense than either looking at a mistake in their dressing using Spot or hearing a false accent with Listen. However again, Ravenloft being a world where magic exists, I also paid attention to spells that may affect the so said check, leading to the following:

Concentration spells: Heroism - Greater Heroism, leading to a maximum of +4 concentration per caster lvl.

Spot check: Clairaudience/Clairvoyance - Insight - True Seeing, +15 + 1 per 2 caster lvl.

Listen check: Amplify - Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, +25, always.

Influence: Glidness, +1 per caster lvl.

Of course we should not forget the effect of items, but I think there are far more enhancements on Listen and Spot and Influence, compared to Concentration... Which would lead me to propose Concentration as a counter skill for a disguise feature. (The sad part being that it excludes Rogues and Assassins!)

The rest would be balancing the time between which each checks would be made and how would someone find out that a person is acting in disguise... To which I'd propose again a 30 min IG (each 3 min IRL like the Vistani Caravan wait) in presence of a disguised person. If a character was to succeed the revealing check, the disguised person, viewed by the player, would be surrounded by an aura (maybe a yellow version of ghostly visage), but only to the player seeing through the disguise. This would also reveal the true identity of the disguised character, though if the two never met before, it'll be to the player to keep his RP straight, but can still mention to his allies how the disguised person is acting strange from his point of view.

I send it out there. Seems like a nice function to add to the server, or to the game in general, without any DM assistance.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 02:18:22 AM by Always_a_hero »
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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 05:02:53 PM »
The real issue is it requires LETO, which we don't currently have working.

Until and if we ever have mechanical support for this we won't be implementing a disguise system. Without the ability to mask the person's name, there's little point in having such a system.

A minor Glamour

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2018, 05:15:01 PM »
Wearing a mask is an excellent idea lol

GeneralBonobo

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 11:14:01 PM »
Wearing a mask is an excellent idea lol

The problem with that, and why I brought this up, is that often times players will not realize that you are in fact disguising yourself and will only look at your name, and thus believe their character would recognize you. This happens even if you simply change your outfit and have something covering your head, granted.

A minor Glamour

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2018, 05:57:29 AM »
Well at the risk of sounding dismissive people should pay attention to the fact that characters wear hoods and helmets. Actually it's not as if this is unusual, characters often wear hoods and helmets 24 hours a day 365 days a year, sometimes its to see people not wearing them.

BraveSirRobin

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2018, 02:18:15 PM »
Well at the risk of sounding dismissive people should pay attention to the fact that characters wear hoods and helmets. Actually it's not as if this is unusual, characters often wear hoods and helmets 24 hours a day 365 days a year, sometimes its to see people not wearing them.

The only issue this really creates is that insofar as WYSIWYG is concerned, I've seen people who wear hoods 24/7, I've seen people who put them on periodically. It's really hard to determine what defining features someone's attire has when they're all recycling the same hood model and the same body model, the same physique, and so forth. If I saw someone who wore the same black hood, forever, and then tomorrow they said they're disguised, that doesn't really work. Similarly, hoods shouldn't totally obscure someone's face unless they're specifically emoting keeping their head low and the hood wrapped around their face like someone who didn't want to be seen would. Instead, they walk around, performing functions as normal as though there was a barrier of anonymity and black covering their face (due to NWN game engine limitations on implementing wearable hoods) and try to stay safe. Only person I can say I've seen "Disguised" who atleast somewhat I could buy has been Vargas Rook, because he puts a shroud over his face. I mean, I can still see bright red flesh, but, it's a step forward.

Additionally, the moment someone would talk in disguise, unless they're emoting talking in a manner that's incredibly uncharacteristic, I.E. a female who talks with a deep, low accent, or..  A male talking like michael jackson, most people could pick up on the voice of the person.

Disguises are just incredibly iffy to begin with, without an abundance of supportive RP that's extremely tedious to upkeep. Though, I suppose at that, I should say, keeping a disguise properly would be an extremely tedious upkeep.

Arawn

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 02:48:50 PM »
In order for a hood to fully hide your identity you basically have to be wearing it so low you can't see where you're going. It would make it slightly trickier to identify you from the sides or back but is just about as "disguisey" as wearing a ski jacket (that is, not). Only in the dark, or fog, or somewhere else where there's limited light would it pose a major problem.

Spoiler: demo • show
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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2018, 07:50:21 PM »
In order for a hood to fully hide your identity you basically have to be wearing it so low you can't see where you're going. It would make it slightly trickier to identify you from the sides or back but is just about as "disguisey" as wearing a ski jacket (that is, not). Only in the dark, or fog, or somewhere else where there's limited light would it pose a major problem.

Spoiler: demo • show


All of this, QFT.

But, we did get some cool masks, bandanas, and helmet models recently I think  deserve a good look at. They'd make excellent disguise tools.

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2018, 08:59:55 PM »
In order for a hood to fully hide your identity you basically have to be wearing it so low you can't see where you're going. It would make it slightly trickier to identify you from the sides or back but is just about as "disguisey" as wearing a ski jacket (that is, not). Only in the dark, or fog, or somewhere else where there's limited light would it pose a major problem.

Spoiler: demo • show


Um, "disguise" means a lot more than wearing a faceplate. It's actually quite involved with training in body language, lying and well... actual disguise. That is, wigs, the application of makeup, prosthetics.

Putting on a helmet isn't spycraft and doesn't fool anyone who knows you. Spies, actors and conmen wouldn't even be able to function with "Hold on a minute while I put on this doofy bucket first."

I see nothing wrong with cloaks or even a naked head, so long as you've the influence and some sort of system that notifies people around you that you're in disguise at the time. (A "(Disguised)" by their name is just fine, I'd think.)

ladylena

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2018, 09:26:11 PM »
If you want to use a hood, use a ghosthood and don't activate its power. And be sure to note it in your description.

Philos

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2018, 10:24:07 PM »
I think there's a difference between trying to be someone else verses not being recognized. We recently got some nice mask models that should work well for the incognito, fashion worried rogue.

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2018, 11:12:39 PM »
If you want to use a hood, use a ghosthood and don't activate its power. And be sure to note it in your description.

If you look supernaturally concealed that might just attract other kinds of attention, but I also don't have the description of the ghost hood offhand. What does it say it does?

ladylena

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2018, 08:42:41 AM »
If you want to use a hood, use a ghosthood and don't activate its power. And be sure to note it in your description.

If you look supernaturally concealed that might just attract other kinds of attention, but I also don't have the description of the ghost hood offhand. What does it say it does?

It shadows the wearers face with unnatural shadows, completely hiding the face, unless you activate it, it makes your eyes stand out

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2018, 09:30:15 AM »
If you want to use a hood, use a ghosthood and don't activate its power. And be sure to note it in your description.

If you look supernaturally concealed that might just attract other kinds of attention, but I also don't have the description of the ghost hood offhand. What does it say it does?

It shadows the wearers face with unnatural shadows, completely hiding the face, unless you activate it, it makes your eyes stand out

It doesn't do that in broad daylight however. Which is part of its description.
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ladylena

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2018, 10:10:31 AM »
If you want to use a hood, use a ghosthood and don't activate its power. And be sure to note it in your description.

If you look supernaturally concealed that might just attract other kinds of attention, but I also don't have the description of the ghost hood offhand. What does it say it does?

It shadows the wearers face with unnatural shadows, completely hiding the face, unless you activate it, it makes your eyes stand out

It doesn't do that in broad daylight however. Which is part of its description.

"Makes it difficult to discern in anything but full daylight"
So would that mean that in game if it's not sunny it would be obscured? Or Just during the day?

Iridni Ren

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Re: Disguise System
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2018, 10:39:08 AM »
I think there's a difference between trying to be someone else verses not being recognized. We recently got some nice mask models that should work well for the incognito, fashion worried rogue.

I can think of three categories:

1) Impersonation

2) Outright concealment

3) Blending in

The first IMO is a different topic entirely and would require quite a number of skills and/or magic.

The second would be the easiest, but in certain situations wouldn't work at all. A ski mask, for example, would help a lot, provided the user didn't speak to anyone who knew her voice. On the other hand, this would also attract attention to the wearer. Garda would of course question her.

If a system could be implemented--and it sounds as though it can't--blending in would be the most interesting. It might make the new "unremarkable" feat useful because IMO the ability to blend in should function at least partly off OCR. If you don't have a high OCR, it should be easier for you to pass unnoticed--at least among those who have no great acquaintance with you.

Most of the time I don't think our PCs should notice other PCs we barely know as much as we do. It's a misty place with bad weather. Often  lighting is provided only by the moon or sources like candles and torches. Also, if you see someone in context, it's much easier to recognize her than if you see her in an atypical place. IRL even those with high "OCR" (celebrities) can sometimes pass unnoticed, if they knock around not looking glamorous.

Women can wear makeup and change their hair. Men can grow or shave a beard. Now that we have glasses, think of what Clark Kent accomplished :P

Personally (and only personally), if my PC encounters another PC who for IC reasons I suspect might be trying to pass unnoticed, I send a Tell and ask if that's the case. Then I decide on a response based on that, including how well my PC knows the PC. Generally, I respect the other PC's wishes. If it was someone with whom Iridni was on more than casual terms, I'd take that into account as well as how many people were around (i.e., is it a crowd situation or just the two of us?). But I don't feel any need for her to have miraculous abilities of recognition as provided by the tab key.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 10:42:37 AM by Iridni Ren »

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