Fast Travel between Vallaki and Krofburg

[DM Erebus]

Hi!

I'd like to suggest a fast travel connection between Vallaki and Krofburg.
The Krofburg areas are great, and I know Arawn and many players have worked really hard to create excellent roleplay opportunities there.
In my experience, and I think those of other players, the time (and risk) needed to go to/from Krofburg from Vallaki acts as a disincentive, if not a barrier to utilizing those areas and making the most of the opportunities.

Having a fast travel connection would alleviate this, obviously making it much easier to get from the player hub to Krofburg, and vice-versa. The distance is comparable to that of Vallaki to Midway Haven, which does have a fast travel connection.

This connection could be an overland silver-trading caravan or similar, accessible spring, summer and autumn.

One potential issue would be that it'd make it much easier to farm deliveries, however delivery options for Vallaki-Miday and Vallaki-Fishing Lodge have existed for a long time, so the travel cost / delivery reward can be balanced.

Thoughts and comments?

[Nemesis 24]

I'd like it, for the simple fact it could invite more people up to Krofburg - which I love the idea of.

If it was implemented, I admit I'd like to see 'travel time' (much as what happens on the caravan to and fro from the Mist Camp) added to it.  I admit I'd also love to see that on the boat trips involving Ghastria, D'Loo, and the lake as well, a timed transition on a boat that ends with the departure.  It feels a little jarring to instantly teleport about in these instances, a few minutes travel time would still be quicker than going on foot in most cases and be a little more immersive as well.

[ASymphony]

Somewhat torn on the matter. On one hand, especially given that I intend to play a PC there soon-ish, I'd really like it if there were more rp. That being said, fast travel also causes issues of another nature. Namely, whenever you introduce something like a fast travel system, it inevitably means no one goes on foot anymore, which in turn means all involved rp just will not happen. For example, the whole plot around the beast in the mountains during the NCE could not have happened if this were the case.
Ultimately, I think having less fast travel options is the better approach.

[derkotushka]

I like this idea.
But!

Traveling in mountains between Vallaki and Krofburg is big important part which also produce some good RP, especially if that doing in winter and in night. It is also good place for ambushes of AMPC/PCs.
I think if road and mountains can be more expanded to make it actually big and long perhaps there can be some place for caravan which able only in daytime perhaps? Or only in spring/summer + daytime?..
Fast travel looks here more like for OOC reasons when spawns after reset is messed or when you as player do not have many time to play to everytime RP this long travels between two places.

And if this idea will have any approval then it will be not fair about Tser Pool.
I remember many times it was suggested to make something similar to VoB/Tser Pool.

[Phantasia]

I've suggested this before, but the fact of the matter is, is that Krofburg is a highly isolated mountain village and the roads are full of dangers. Sharp turns, falling rocks, etc, etc. To run this route regularly you'd basically have to be a madman (probably). While not all hazards are represented ICly, that doesn't mean they're not there.

Saying this doesn't mean I'm not torn about having some sort of faster travel option to the remote village, and it certainly would do wonders to alleviate the long haul up there for various reasons.

[Better Dread than Dead]

I don't know, I like the fact that Krofburg is isolated from the rest of everything and that it's a bit of a pain getting there. If it was easy, I'm sure it'd be easier to have the whole place remain populous, yet you'd definitely lose the sense that travelling there is dangerous since you can literally just walk up to an NPC and he can teleport you there.

I suppose what would make it okay is if there was the option available, yet the amount asked for hitching a ride on the caravan was extortionate, to the tune of 1,000 gp or more, meaning if you're wishing to do deliveries, you'd be undoing all your work.

[Tycat]

I'd like it, for the simple fact it could invite more people up to Krofburg - which I love the idea of.

If it was implemented, I admit I'd like to see 'travel time' (much as what happens on the caravan to and fro from the Mist Camp) added to it.  I admit I'd also love to see that on the boat trips involving Ghastria, D'Loo, and the lake as well, a timed transition on a boat that ends with the departure.  It feels a little jarring to instantly teleport about in these instances, a few minutes travel time would still be quicker than going on foot in most cases and be a little more immersive as well.

This. I love this idea and it will definitely get more of us to Krofburg. I agree with the boat times 110% as well.

There should be a catch, though. I think these things could stand to be a bit more expensive. Perhaps even random highwayman encounters.

[APorg]

yet the amount asked for hitching a ride on the caravan was extortionate, to the tune of 1,000 gp or more

*eyes Justine* And where would the profits go?

[Pav]

Instead of Vallaki to Krofburg, I'd prefer a Tser Pool to Krofburg, one way.

[Sinful Mystic]

If I was going to wish for a wagon to anywhere it would be a Vallaki-Mist Camp run.

One of the things that a remote area gains is an atmosphere of it's own. Very little of what happens in Krofburg matters in Vallaki and vice versa. From the perspective of a member of the Bellegarde I see the appeal of easier access for our events but I am not sure it is worth the price of turning Krofburg into a suburb of Vallaki.

This seems pretty OOC to me. I do not think a wagon would do the trip regularly, especially during winter. Crag cats, blood hawks and a cave rumoured to be lived in by a half Dragon are just some of the many terrors that would repel such a wagon master.

If there was to be such a wagon I would suggest it be limited. Morning wagons out, evening wagons in, not a 24 hour caravan.

[Iridni Ren]

I don't know, I like the fact that Krofburg is isolated from the rest of everything and that it's a bit of a pain getting there. If it was easy, I'm sure it'd be easier to have the whole place remain populous, yet you'd definitely lose the sense that travelling there is dangerous since you can literally just walk up to an NPC and he can teleport you there.

I suppose what would make it okay is if there was the option available, yet the amount asked for hitching a ride on the caravan was extortionate, to the tune of 1,000 gp or more, meaning if you're wishing to do deliveries, you'd be undoing all your work.

I can't speak for the developers, but I would assume they had a reason for choosing Krofburg to develop. One thing about easy travel is the homogenization it causes, so this seems precisely right. Do we need two Vallakis, or does Krofburg need to maintain its own identity?

As for the deliveries, I've been doing them on my new PC...and the trip is not bad at all for the payout one receives. If she had a partner so that they could double up and share XP between them, it might even be considered unbalanced.

The server is supposed to be about horror and RP.  Fast travel would reduce both of those.

Regarding the Lake Zarovich ferry...I'd even be for getting rid of that. Or make it run only from Wachter to Midway.

In other words, I can see some truly long haul routes like Pav has also suggested, so that if a PC is all the way on one end of the land mass she does have some way of "looping around" rather than going all the way back. But not something internal like this.

(I don't like anything going directly to Krofburg, even Pav's suggestion, because it doesn't make IC sense to me that an isolated mountain village has basically a teleportation system.)

[Revenant]

If there was to be such a wagon I would suggest it be limited. Morning wagons out, evening wagons in, not a 24 hour caravan.

I really like this. Quite a bit, actually. Particularly if you combine it with the slight weight/caravan time and the seasonal availability. Heck, I'd be interested in this just for the duration (assuming it has a duration) of the "Silver Rush", so to speak, as Krofburg seeks to import workers at high volume.

I feel like the defined times for incoming/outgoing caravans helps control the flow of travel, leads to more commitment to the travel, and prevents people doing a delivery dance (insofar as that is a concern).

[Arawn]

As the person with perhaps the most perspective on this, I have to say that I feel quite strongly that we should not (and, perhaps, given that I'm the sole dev working on Krofburg, we will not) implement such a system now or ever. The isolation of Krofburg is part of the experience; it is supposed to force together those players who choose to be part of it. I'll be the first to admit that it doesn't appeal to some people, and that's fine, and, frankly, part of the point. People looking for a more casual experience can find it in Vallaki. There's nothing wrong with deciding it's not for you. But it is part of the concept of the Silver Spring plot, by design, and based on my experiences running a faction out of the Wachter Estate area.

[HopeIsTheCarrot]

I would like to echo the reservations of those who don't want to see Krofburg turned into a suburb of Vallaki. Krofburg is one of my favorite locations on the server and it has continued to maintain a very unique and genuine feel as a setting location. While adding a transportation system might not ruin that feel, I certainly feel that it would take away from it.

[Norture]

I would like to echo the reservations of those who don't want to see Krofburg turned into a suburb of Vallaki.

Hahaha, I like how that was phrased.

[SpaceHam]

I would like to echo the reservations of those who don't want to see Krofburg turned into a suburb of Vallaki.

Hahaha, I like how that was phrased.

+1

I agree, while I love the idea of fast travel, and the ferry is a good example, between Midway and Vallaki, it would certainly rob us of some rather atmospheric and well worked areas to visit. It would simply be too convenient. As someone who has made the run from Vallaki to the Mist Camp (about 11 minutes on haste with practically 0 load times, fyi, not a monk) many, many times (as we all have), fast travel I don't think would be necessary. It's really not that far. Who doesn't love a good woobly bridge to RP on?

[Mailbox-2100]

 Hey, I skipped most of the thread- but, what if the "Caravan" to and from Kroftburg, is a "Guarded" one, thus requiring more money to initiate?  This would still incentive RP and travelling together, yet, does not defeat the purpose of deliveries and such?

 This way, at least people could have a quick means to and fro with a proper pool, or patron, which seems cool to me~

[Arawn]

Isolation's the point, not the relative value of the deliveries.

[Silas Rotleaf]

Perhaps a train or other privileged means of mass conveyance that is fairly costly so that there would be a reinforcement of social inequalities and stratification since those who could afford safer travel to the region would have a different experience to those who make the journey on foot?

[Snarling_Badger]

Trains are outside of the technological scope of Ravenloft...

And if you mean wagon trains? Well, the mountain is treacherous, and can't really have roads to support that, I believe.

[HopeIsTheCarrot]

I really feel we are beating a dead horse here. The principal concern here has been presented as the desire to maintain Krofburg as an isolated region, one which has the feel and atmosphere of being treacherous to travel. I don't feel that any of the proposed solutions have offered a counter to this prohibiting factor, and I don't see that changing. "Fast travel" seems inherently counter to this vision, as presented by various players and confirmed by Arawn.

[SpaceHam]

I really feel we are beating a dead horse here. The principal concern here has been presented as the desire to maintain Krofburg as an isolated region, one which has the feel and atmosphere of being treacherous to travel. I don't feel that any of the proposed solutions have offered a counter to this prohibiting factor, and I don't see that changing. "Fast travel" seems inherently counter to this vision, as presented by various players and confirmed by Arawn.

We're hardly beating a dead horse. We're here for discussion and to share other peoples opinions. Most seem to not be in favour of a fast travel system. I see no reason why people can't voice their opinions. The road to Krofburg SHOULD be treacherous, that's part of the appeal.

[booksarefun666]

I really feel we are beating a dead horse here. The principal concern here has been presented as the desire to maintain Krofburg as an isolated region, one which has the feel and atmosphere of being treacherous to travel. I don't feel that any of the proposed solutions have offered a counter to this prohibiting factor, and I don't see that changing. "Fast travel" seems inherently counter to this vision, as presented by various players and confirmed by Arawn.

We're hardly beating a dead horse. We're here for discussion and to share other peoples opinions. Most seem to not be in favour of a fast travel system. I see no reason why people can't voice their opinions. The road to Krofburg SHOULD be treacherous, that's part of the appeal.

When the only voice that actually matters (and yes, that is the case when it's the sole developer of Krofburg) says  a solid 'no' and citing various reasons as to not do it it should typically be considered a closed subject.

[SpaceHam]

That seems somewhat authoritarian and dismissive of the player bases wishes, but ok. I'll make a mental note of that attitude.

[Knight of Rhodes]

We must really learn to speak better to one another.

Arawn is a DM- this does not under any circumstance mean that only his voice matters. I am sure the team, and the Dev's, speak on things like this regularly.  Things are done for a reason, but that does not mean that we are not listened to.

Do not let disagreements spawn the inability to converse and brainstorm without delving into discourtesy. We are all better than that. 


-KOR