Silver bracelets

[booksarefun666]

I'm not sure if there's a similar thread somewhere because I tried searching so just merge this with the old one if there is. That aside, the silver bracelets that previously gave immunity to fear seems a lot less worthwhile and a lot less valuable (obviously) to keep around.

The reason why they were valuable because their demographic, low will front-liners that needed that edge to even do their role or else just run around and trigger traps and be a detriment. +6 in theory should be powerful, but it's not when you consider that there's usually more than one fear aura and those fear dcs are really high - I mean, we're talking like 20 - 30 DC.

What this essentially does is make it a buff to wizards that sorely do not need it and makes it where certain classses cannot function without a wizard that may not always be there or if they wish to, they'll probably only be able to do it after they get their enchanted gear.

I don't think the item was the problem or if there even was a problem in the first place, but if it was too powerful then the better solution may have been to stick in harder to reach areas so it trickles down slowly as opposed to making it a thing where nobody wants the new one and try to chase after the older versions.

[k_moustakas]

I haven't even seen such, my barbarian would love them even if it's just +6 because unlike most buffs the duration of clarity potions is horrible

[Ophie Kitty]

I've always thought the flat immunity to fear was a bit strong, and having one immunity completely nullifies all of the other resist fear gear from having any sort of practical value. This was one of those gearswap items people rely on for covering up a flaw in a character build. +6 is still very respectable and can be combined with other saves / vs fear gear if you've got troubles keeping up with the aura spam. Not to mention you can get +4 to +5 from several different commonly frequent buffing items, a few low-level spells for classes, and there is other means of immunity from fear offered by classes if you're still having a hard time in those high level dungeons.

Sticking it in harder to reaches doesn't work either, Its already an item drop from sithicus and thats primarily where all of the ones on the server come from anyways.

[EO]

We're adding a feat in the next hak update that gives +4 vs Fear, which should help fighters.

[booksarefun666]

We're adding a feat in the next hak update that gives +4 vs Fear, which should help fighters.

That's actually pretty cool.

[Xegzy]

Alright, I have to say something. Why  is magic resistance bracers, a high level end item being changed. They were already rare as he'll to get. Low magic server just means powerful magic items are rare. Not that they are weaker. Making the item a +4 isn't good enough. Fear is a will save which fighters are completely  garbage at even at high levels. Which if they fail. They flat out die without help. Adding a token fear feat doesn't help either.  Now you have a mandatory feat which constructs builds that are considered garbage. Anti fear gear? Where is it? Because I sure haven't seen it. Ive been looking for that stuff on my lowbies.

Frankly I don't know why you guys keep rebalancing items. For the most part this usually isn't PvP oriented.

Anyway I think you guys should  check out this video and several others from extra credit. They raise some good hard earned points when it comes to game design.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3De31OSVZF77w&ved=0ahUKEwiBqZjH7czUAhVL2oMKHXsTBxIQwqsBCB4wAA&usg=AFQjCNHGb_IfQ1j6KF83uS1oWz5Bf9SjRQ

I am an explorer - achiever  archetype player  for instance.

[MAB77]

Feel free to disagree, but my personnal opinion on the matter is that blanket permanent immunity items are not in line with the spirit of the server. Their should always be a measure of risk when undertaking a dangerous activity regardless of how well equipped you are. Do note that I speak only for myself, I had nothing to do with change, but I fully support it.

As for fear resistance, anything which raises your Will saving throw also helps against fear. Many items and potions exists that would help you so. A particular amulet, some rings and a belt comme to mind. Eye of the dragon and remove fear potio s helps too. It's not that difficult to raise.

[Legion XXI]

Feel free to disagree, but my personnal opinion on the matter is that blanket permanent immunity items are not in line with the spirit of the server. Their should always be a measure of risk when undertaking a dangerous activity regardless of how well equipped you are. Do note that I speak only for myself, I had nothing to do with change, but I fully support it.

As for fear resistance, anything which raises your Will saving throw also helps against fear. Many items and potions exists that would help you so. A particular amulet, some rings and a belt come to mind. Eye of the dragon and remove fear potions helps too. It's not that difficult to raise.

Yeah I'd like to echo this as well.

Also I play a lot of rogues and other no-will-save-having-noobs, and I always manage to get by with just +saves gear, use/charge items, or a wizard/cleric buddy.  Paladins can use their inspire ability to help out a group too if one is around.  It's never really been an issue for me even in areas like Harvest and Anubis where you have the aura spam, and I don't even rock enchanted gear on most of my guys. 

[Iridni Ren]

Feel free to disagree, but my personnal opinion on the matter is that blanket permanent immunity items are not in line with the spirit of the server.

Fair enough, but fear auras are a permanent effect Can permanent immunity to an effect be more unbalanced than permanent generation of the effect?

Fear is so frustrating because your PC can become afraid of something (through aura spam) that she could ordinarily squash. Instead, she stands there being pulverized when if she acted sensibly she wouldn't have to be afraid. Or if afraid, would get away from except for game limits. For example, a frightened PC won't go through a transition to get safely away from the source of her fear.

Do clarity potions last only five rounds? Perhaps their duration could be boosted. Are there any other mind-blanky potions for fighters, rogues, etc. to use? These would at least give those classes a way of having temporary immunity like their spell-casting buddies.

Another idea I've heard is granting short-term immunity to fear after having made a save against it, or adding a bonus for follow-up saves.

[booksarefun666]

So I thought about it for awhile and for me personally, I wouldn't be hurt because I can just buy things that literally mimic the same effect (clarity) from elsewhere or get someone to brew that kind of potion. It's just a bit of a head-scratcher that these kinds of bracers would be against the spirit of the server when we have classes that can circumvent (and no, I'm not just talking about paladins.) fear effects  and a lot of other mechanics and those don't get tweaked with or tried to bought in line.

Nerfs like these essentially make it where powerful magic items are in the hands of a few classes in the form of spells and those that can handle scrolls. Not that I'd ever want you to take a sledgehammer towards wizards or clerics, I just don't personally get the vision of the staff. Is it to make non-magic classes scary and those that can bend space and time or bend magic live like proverbial gods? If so, wouldn't you want to put an application behind wizards and clerics so it doesn't get flooded with the two classes because they're extra-special and thrive in that kind of enviroment?

[Dud_Goose]

This change only makes it rougher on fighter types, in my opinion.  Although party play is a good thing, and mages will mind blank where necessary, a party without a mage will just end up dungeoning in places without fear.  Even stacking up saves won't help much, because you have to roll vs. so many auras.

[modderpunk]

Another idea I've heard is granting short-term immunity to fear after having made a save against it, or adding a bonus for follow-up saves.

I like this idea but I have no idea if this would be possible to implement

[MAB77]

Iridni, a permanent fear aura on some creatures does not relate to a need to be fear immuned 24 hours a day. Said creatures are not with you 24/7. Fear immunity is not a balance to Fear auras. It nullifies them entirely and takes away the main trait that make these creatures so dangerous in the first place. Where would be the fun and challenge in the game if we take that trait away?

Sure some classes have it easier through spells and innate abilities, but the point of the game is to play through cooperation to overcome your mutual weaknesses.

If those fear DCs were impossibly high I'd agree that it would be required, but my experience is that it isn't so. I see no need to increase the length of clarity potions btw. It would make fear auras as moot as with permanent fear immunity items. Along the many items you can wear to boost your will and fear saves, remove fear and owl wisdom potions will help you resist fear effects further for a decent amount of time. Often the chance of failure will be very low, and rarely will eveyone at once be affected. Don't be shy to use those liquid courage brews we made them for that. (Did I mentionned luck of heroes, iron will and the upcoming Courage feats?)

Yes you run a little more risk than before, it's true, but not by much. What some of you call a nerf, I call a game experience gain.

(Addendum, it's not like those fear immunity bracers were so common to begin with. With or without, most fighters don't have them when going in those dangerous places. Thus proving they were not required so much.)

[MAB77]

Now... some crafted boots and armors lining granting a small bonus vs fear, I'll discuss it with my fellow Devs. (But if it ever comes it would be after the HAK update).

[Iridni Ren]

Iridni, a permanent fear aura on some creatures does not relate to a need to be fear immuned 24 hours a day. Said creatures are not with you 24/7. Fear immunity is not a balance to Fear auras. It nullifies them entirely and takes away the main trait that make these creatures so dangerous in the first place. Where would be the fun and challenge in the game if we take that trait away?

MAB: I'm being cheeky, but your first point works both ways. I'm not with them 24/7...and they're not with me! Let them go pick on those who aren't immune to fear

If the aura is "what makes these creatures so dangerous," then you seem to be saying it is sort of unbalancing. It turns something otherwise not a challenge into something dangerous. Doesn't that strike you as a contradiction to reason? My PC is afraid of something that's not a challenge to her? Only my being afraid of it makes it challenging.

Which is exactly why I think players find fear auras frustrating rather than fun.

I realize that it's a "magical effect," but calling it fear adds to the frustration because fighters and barbarians tend often to pride themselves on being fearless IC. Yet they flee while the meek cleric stays put.

The rest of what I said, however, was not being cheeky. If the main objection to the gauntlets is their permanent effect, then non-permanent fixes like longer-lasting but still limited duration items like potions should be a good compromise. Otherwise, this creates another situation in which those who use magic win and those who don't lose.

If fear auras are all that makes the creatures dangerous, then that also means spell casters can take them on with impunity.

[Mailbox-2100]

I like that they are [Fear: Immune].
I love that.

Makes them unique.
A treasure, no?

[ILLY6666]

while the meek cleric stays put.

I kek'd. Since when are battlepriests meek.

Anyhow, I wonder.
With these changes, are the ones already in circulation changing to +6 or are they going to be grandfathered?

[booksarefun666]

while the meek cleric stays put.

I kek'd. Since when are battlepriests meek.

Anyhow, I wonder.
With these changes, are the ones already in circulation changing to +6 or are they going to be grandfathered?

Grandfathered.

[Legion XXI]

Iridni, a permanent fear aura on some creatures does not relate to a need to be fear immuned 24 hours a day. Said creatures are not with you 24/7. Fear immunity is not a balance to Fear auras. It nullifies them entirely and takes away the main trait that make these creatures so dangerous in the first place. Where would be the fun and challenge in the game if we take that trait away?

MAB: I'm being cheeky, but your first point works both ways. I'm not with them 24/7...and they're not with me! Let them go pick on those who aren't immune to fear

If the aura is "what makes these creatures so dangerous," then you seem to be saying it is sort of unbalancing. It turns something otherwise not a challenge into something dangerous. Doesn't that strike you as a contradiction to reason? My PC is afraid of something that's not a challenge to her? Only my being afraid of it makes it challenging.

Which is exactly why I think players find fear auras frustrating rather than fun.

I realize that it's a "magical effect," but calling it fear adds to the frustration because fighters and barbarians tend often to pride themselves on being fearless IC. Yet they flee while the meek cleric stays put.

The rest of what I said, however, was not being cheeky. If the main objection to the gauntlets is their permanent effect, then non-permanent fixes like longer-lasting but still limited duration items like potions should be a good compromise. Otherwise, this creates another situation in which those who use magic win and those who don't lose.

If fear auras are all that makes the creatures dangerous, then that also means spell casters can take them on with impunity.

In fairness, I think a lot of people would classify anything negative that happens to their character as "frustrating rather than fun".  There are people who think just driving around in GTA 5 and blowing up low level players who can't put up a fight for hours on end is "fun", so just catering to one group's subjective idea of fun might not be the easiest way to solve this.  I personally find challenge fun, and immunity items that give blanket resistance detract from that.

Also as you said yourself, the fear auras are a magical effect that is taking hold of your character's mind and forcing a fear response.  It's not "oh no a spooky mummy", it's magic.  Like how death magic makes you dead.  Fear magic makes you fear'd.  Just saying that some people like to RP themselves as fearless isn't a very strong counter argument here, because everyone likes to see their PC as the hero.  Personally, I like to RP my PCs as being alive but the spawns in sithicus tend to disagree 

The reason the "meek" cleric stands their ground is that they are literally supplemented by the divine power of gods.  That tends to help people overcome challenges they'd otherwise not be able to, especially when they have specific spells for guarding their minds against the exact magical fear that is at work here.  Those fighters and barbarians are kings of the non-magical battlefield, but once you add in the supernatural, you call the ghost busters, not the army.