Author Topic: Identify & Lore  (Read 1979 times)

booksarefun666

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Identify & Lore
« on: May 31, 2017, 03:04:29 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but lore's primary use is to identify items with some application into DM events and reading some placables. Long ago, the DCs to identify items has been increased to give the skill more use so people couldn't just two rings of insight and id everything and it has had success, but the spell identify makes the skill irrelevant in that context.

http://nwnravenloft.wikia.com/wiki/Identify

as opposed to

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Identify

The former makes the skill irrelevant in that context, the later - which was what it was originally makes it able to id some things but not everything. This obviously isn't game-breaking and lore is a nice thing to have from an IC standpoint, but this spell can be achieved early on and also makes legend lore a redundant spell.

http://nwnravenloft.wikia.com/wiki/Legend_Lore

So I'm not sure if identify is meant to copy it's PnP variant but it really does invalidate an entire skill in it's primary use and makes a higher level spell pointless to have. Even Legend lore is useless as a scroll because it'd be cheaper to get identify.

Jeebs

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Re: Identify & Lore
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2017, 05:14:33 PM »
The thing is, as far as I understand it, the revised version of Identify only allows you to identify one item whereas the original version gave you a bonus to Lore for the duration of the spell which allows you to ID multiple things. So unless you have a bunch of spell slots to spare for the spell or you're willing to buy several scrolls, you're still better off having a decent lore skill to ID stuff. Before I started playing here, a single cast of Identify would generally allow me to ID pretty much everything I had in my inventory before the spell ran out. Now it only works on a single item at a time.

booksarefun666

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Re: Identify & Lore
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2017, 09:37:20 PM »
The thing is, as far as I understand it, the revised version of Identify only allows you to identify one item whereas the original version gave you a bonus to Lore for the duration of the spell which allows you to ID multiple things. So unless you have a bunch of spell slots to spare for the spell or you're willing to buy several scrolls, you're still better off having a decent lore skill to ID stuff. Before I started playing here, a single cast of Identify would generally allow me to ID pretty much everything I had in my inventory before the spell ran out. Now it only works on a single item at a time.

I don't think +10 + caster level would cut it with these new DCs. Maybe with two rings of insights +  identify.

Dzem

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Re: Identify & Lore
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2020, 08:42:19 AM »
Hi,

I would like to resurect the topic and add my two coins. Recent changes to lore skill lowered DC for identifying items even more. I had a lot of fun when supporting other pcs with such skill, it was another great reason to have interractions, I liked the change of increasing disarming traps and unlocking chests DC so many rouge role pcs were rewarded for investing in such skills. At higher levels everyone got rings and spells which is sufficient to identify almost every item in the game. I believe 15 to 20 skill points is a hard cap. I would love to see it more "profesionalized" at least for high level items. More like 25 to 30 skill points for high level items.

Iridni Ren

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Re: Identify & Lore
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2020, 11:01:25 AM »
Recent changes to lore skill lowered DC for identifying items even more. I had a lot of fun when supporting other pcs with such skill, it was another great reason to have interractions, I liked the change of increasing disarming traps and unlocking chests DC so many rouge role pcs were rewarded for investing in such skills. At higher levels everyone got rings and spells which is sufficient to identify almost every item in the game. I believe 15 to 20 skill points is a hard cap. I would love to see it more "profesionalized" at least for high level items. More like 25 to 30 skill points for high level items.

Haven't noticed any lowering of DCs myself, but I think Lore is in good place currently as a skill.

As an aside, the absolute requirement to have a rogue for many dungeons that you praise is why some dungeons are constantly depleted, leading to the calls for increasing the spawn rate and adding new dungeons.

High-skill PCs tend to be the wealthiest PCs on the server already. Aside from their ability to ninja loot, most balanced parties will want to have someone who can identify items, and, typically, sell them as well, leading to more money for everyone involved. Not only do those parties save the cost of paying for identification and receive better prices, but bringing heavy items and other vendor trash becomes worthwhile.

My extremely high level main is medium invested in Lore as a class skill. She has three items to boost it. Nevertheless, some things she can't identify and most she can't without using the items, one of which weighs 3 pounds. Carrying capacity is a constraint for every character, so to have that item with her she must forego something else. The ring switching means she loses two spell lots that she then has to re-add. She also has all the appraise gear, but must also equip and unequip that.

My medium level alt does not have Lore as a class skill. She can identify nothing without equipping the gear, and most everything is still not identifiable. When she pays the Vistani to identify something (and all the time and hassle that entails), she will barely make back the money it costs. I think she has even lost money in some cases.

So how does this play out?

Generally, I don't bother. It's just not worth it to me to grab vendor trash, carry it, try to identify it, switch to appraise gear, and sell it. My PCs grab the gold and the lightweight. The only places I would find something worthwhile to either PC, I'm not going to be soloing anyway. As a consequence, my PCs don't tend to accumulate the massive sums others of their level have, but I find this game requires inordinate amounts of time as is to achieve anything meaningful, so any tedium and repetition I can avoid is all to the good.

That I would try to find a high-lore PC I didn't know or have other reasons to interact with so as to identify the items for me...that's not going to happen, your previous experience to the contrary.

TLDR: I suppose Devs could increase the Lore required to identify the most valuable items, those that go for say 30K and more on the PC market. But an across-the-board DC increase for vendor trash just makes it trashier.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 11:04:20 AM by Iridni Ren »

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zDark Shadowz

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Re: Identify & Lore
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2020, 01:00:39 PM »
If I cant identify something with my rings & helmet, I buy the book that lets me use identify 8x for like 260 gold per book... don't have any lore invested beyond the +2 int and +14 in items otherwise.

So, its actually extremely cheap to identify the expensive things, and at least before the update it was basically costless (aside from carry weight) to be able to identify generic things like scrolls, gems, vendor trash.

All the lowering of lore requirements does, is help out lower level folk retain more of their gold when they're splitting the otherwise meagre wares, and that's fine by me.

Identifying equipment has never been out of the means of anyone with gold to throw at books with multiple identify casts and caravans to visit the stores that sold them, and that always paid back dividends to identify things you couldnt identify with equipment alone due to its value.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 01:07:18 PM by zDark Shadowz »

Iridni Ren

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Re: Identify & Lore
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2020, 02:13:56 PM »
If I cant identify something with my rings & helmet, I buy the book that lets me use identify 8x for like 260 gold per book... don't have any lore invested beyond the +2 int and +14 in items otherwise.

I'm not familiar with this book, but I have a copy of the one that casts Legend Lore?

Procuring, carrying around, and using a consumable to identify items is more repetition that I don't enjoy. It's an inevitable part of the game and at certain points necessary to bite the bullet. But (for example) I often can't be bothered to switch out appraise gear while buying potion bottles because the slight savings (which does add up over time) isn't worth having to go in and re-add the two spells later or possibly forgetting to do so.

I prefer RP and XP to gold, and the most efficient ways of making gold don't involve selling tarnished wedding bands and such anyway :)

Anyway and to return to the point, Lore is a middling value skill IMO. If it's not a class skill for a given PC, I wouldn't bother, but it's useful for those who have the skill points to spare.

I don't think it needs either improving or nerfing.

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Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.