Author Topic: Pistol System Tweaks...Reloaded  (Read 2043 times)

William Roberts

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • Thrown a kettle over a pub...what have you done?
Pistol System Tweaks...Reloaded
« on: May 31, 2017, 12:01:58 AM »
A continuation of this thread: http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=37253

Since guns are unique to the server, I wish it was easier to find out information about them. I read through that entire thread, and aside from the "cool" factor, they still seem pretty...well...RP-based. That's why I'm using one, but I don't want it to handicap me so much as it seems to for dungeoning.

Does the Gearling +2 pistol still not pierce damage resistance despite being "enchanted"?

Do most people who use them carry multiple guns?

Any chance of lowering the cost of powder (it seems absurd)?

How about making it where you can tell whether a gun is already primed and loaded? (I don't think you can currently and it seems to let you waste materials.)

Do alchemical bullets exist? (I've heard rumors but nothing definite, and I haven't ever seen a template.)

Are there any feats that make you better with a gun? (Of course you can't use one without exotic weapon proficiency.)

Fire away!
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 12:04:05 AM by William Roberts »


Beauty like a tightened bow, a kind that is not natural in an age like this.

FinalHeaven

  • Ba'al Verzi
  • The Underworld
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1796
  • dat boi
Re: Pistol System Tweaks...Reloaded
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2017, 12:22:59 AM »
The only two of those questions I can answer with certainty are yes, I personally carry multiple guns.  It's much quicker than reloading.  I've seen alchemical bullets (specifically for guns, there are also sling bullets) at one point a year or two ago but I haven't seen them since.  I believe the person that had them bought them somewhere in Port-a-Lucine, but I can't remember where.



Amon-Si

  • Inventor of the cat
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2418
  • Freelance troublemaker
Re: Pistol System Tweaks...Reloaded
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2017, 01:35:44 AM »
A continuation of this thread: http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=37253

Since guns are unique to the server, I wish it was easier to find out information about them. I read through that entire thread, and aside from the "cool" factor, they still seem pretty...well...RP-based. That's why I'm using one, but I don't want it to handicap me so much as it seems to for dungeoning.

Does the Gearling +2 pistol still not pierce damage resistance despite being "enchanted"?

Do most people who use them carry multiple guns?

Any chance of lowering the cost of powder (it seems absurd)?

How about making it where you can tell whether a gun is already primed and loaded? (I don't think you can currently and it seems to let you waste materials.)

Do alchemical bullets exist? (I've heard rumors but nothing definite, and I haven't ever seen a template.)

Are there any feats that make you better with a gun? (Of course you can't use one without exotic weapon proficiency.)

Fire away!

The gearling pistol does not pierce on its own, no.

Chira carries three of them

*shrugs* Gunpowder costs are a thing, could be lower, I guess?

A loaded notification would be awesome

Alchemical, silver and poison bullets exist and work well

No feats will help you unless they lift your base AB or you buff your dex. True strike works with guns.

Philos

  • Stealth/Detection Cognoscenti
  • Developers
  • Dark Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 889
  • Detruisez tous, c'est une obligation!
Re: Pistol System Tweaks...Reloaded
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2017, 03:02:32 AM »
A continuation of this thread: http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=37253

Since guns are unique to the server, I wish it was easier to find out information about them. I read through that entire thread, and aside from the "cool" factor, they still seem pretty...well...RP-based. That's why I'm using one, but I don't want it to handicap me so much as it seems to for dungeoning.

Does the Gearling +2 pistol still not pierce damage resistance despite being "enchanted"?

Do most people who use them carry multiple guns?

Any chance of lowering the cost of powder (it seems absurd)?

How about making it where you can tell whether a gun is already primed and loaded? (I don't think you can currently and it seems to let you waste materials.)

Do alchemical bullets exist? (I've heard rumors but nothing definite, and I haven't ever seen a template.)

Are there any feats that make you better with a gun? (Of course you can't use one without exotic weapon proficiency.)

Fire away!

I don't think current gunpowder prices are anything out of the ordinary. If you disagree you can always make your own through the alchemy crafting system too.

Not 100% on this but I believe the only two feats that will affect pistol use are martial supremacy and perhaps Zen Archery.

William Roberts

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • Thrown a kettle over a pub...what have you done?
Re: Pistol System Tweaks...Reloaded
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2017, 09:22:37 AM »
Quote
I don't think current gunpowder prices are anything out of the ordinary. If you disagree you can always make your own through the alchemy crafting system too.

I can't get IG right now to check figures, but really it's the number of charges per bag and also the bag's weight. Rather than lowering the price (necessarily), I'd advocate for having more uses of powder per bag.

From the previous thread's discussion this is supposed to be black powder. Consider that armies would use this powder, recruits would have to drill (practice) with it, and it's also used in cannons. It doesn't seem realistic that powder would be so expensive and a military able to use it rather than arrows or bolts, given the relative handiness of each in game.

In the past couple of weeks I've come across strong alchemical bolts/arrows for between 300 gp and 450 gp. These items are crafted from rare essences, rather than ordinarily occurring minerals, yet when you divide them per shot the cost is much lower than for a manufactured bullet and powder. In game, they weigh nothing.

Looking online for RL numbers, I see that the charge of black powder required to launch a 45 caliber lead ball is 70 grains. Converting to metric, that's 70 x roughly 65 milligrams or less than five grams. A pound of powder, therefore, should be enough to fire more than 90 bullets.

At the current weight and prices, I don't think it would be practical for a government to equip its infantry with black powder muskets or use cannons.

Be that as it may, I would like to talk generally about guns here and whether there's any desire to improve them or they're just going to remain sort of a novelty. In terms of game balance, for example, if they don't have any feats or other ways to get better at them, then that severely limits how useful/balanced they'll ever be: they can't be very powerful or they'll be too strong for low levels to use, but if they're balanced for low levels, then high levels will have no use for them.

It would be preferable if there were some way (as with most other game features) that a character could through time and focus specialize as a firearm wielder.

The firing process is painfully slow and awkward even with two guns that on a very high appraise character cost more than 20,000 gold (which is pretty high for NPC merchants). Then there's the aforementioned bullets and powder. Since I still know of only one area that sells those supplies, you must also stock up on them, despite the weight of the powder.

These are a lot of constraints. Yes, it's pretty satisfying when it works and you blow someone's head off, but it doesn't happen very often. I don't think it's practical to solo as a gun specialist, and in a group the rest of the group are going to have killed everything before you get to contribute very much.

None of this means I think guns have or ought to be improved. Perhaps they're not even appropriate for the setting. But in reading the old thread it struck me that they once generated a lot of excitement and now they're kind of a very obscure novelty.


Beauty like a tightened bow, a kind that is not natural in an age like this.

Troukk

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1470
Re: Pistol System Tweaks...Reloaded
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2017, 09:28:33 AM »
But in reading the old thread it struck me that they once generated a lot of excitement and now they're kind of a very obscure novelty.

Guns are ridiculously overpowered in PvP. They crit for 150+ damage and use touch attack to determine if they hit (which means they ignore armor).

They are very much used and liked, just not for dungeoning where they are cumbersome, expensive and generally useless (I believe you don't even get experience from a monster killed with a gun).
Not all who wander are lost.

William Roberts

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • Thrown a kettle over a pub...what have you done?
Re: Pistol System Tweaks...Reloaded
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2017, 09:36:42 AM »
Quote
Guns are ridiculously overpowered in PvP.

Well alrighty then :D


Beauty like a tightened bow, a kind that is not natural in an age like this.

booksarefun666

  • Guest
Re: Pistol System Tweaks...Reloaded
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2017, 01:54:08 PM »
There are still alchemical bullets (for guns) for sale in Port-au-lucine, by the way. Just have to explore a bit.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 02:10:17 PM by booksarefun666 »

EO

  • Assistant Head DM/Developer
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 22401
  • The one and only, the one everyone wants to be!
Re: Pistol System Tweaks...Reloaded
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2017, 08:59:16 PM »
Quote
Does the Gearling +2 pistol still not pierce damage resistance despite being "enchanted"?

Unfortunately it doesn't. It still provides a bonus to AB and Damage but doesn't pierce DR. =/ It's a mechanical bug in NwN and there's little we can do about it.

Quote
Any chance of lowering the cost of powder (it seems absurd)?

I could look into the weight rather than the cost.

Quote
How about making it where you can tell whether a gun is already primed and loaded? (I don't think you can currently and it seems to let you waste materials.)

Good idea. I'll tie it to Examine when I have a chance to do that.

Quote
Do alchemical bullets exist? (I've heard rumors but nothing definite, and I haven't ever seen a template.)

As others have said, yes. You can't craft them though.

Quote
Are there any feats that make you better with a gun? (Of course you can't use one without exotic weapon proficiency.)

Off the top of my head: Point Blank Shot and Zen Archery but perhaps others. I'd have to recheck the scripts. Buff spells help, such as Aid, True Strike, etc.

William Roberts

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • Thrown a kettle over a pub...what have you done?
Re: Pistol System Tweaks...Reloaded
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2017, 09:17:31 PM »
Thanks for all the answers. If the bag contained enough powder for more shots yet weighed and cost the same, that would be much improved.

I also seem to recall that when the pistol is already loaded and you try to reload it, then it will accept more powder or another bullet but not both. Anyway, somehow I always get in a "hot dog and bun" situation in which the numbers of each on hand don't match.

For OCD folks like me, that's a problem :)


Beauty like a tightened bow, a kind that is not natural in an age like this.