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Author Topic: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]  (Read 20116 times)

FinalHeaven

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #100 on: July 07, 2017, 02:19:25 AM »
With how easy it is to become badly impaired I'm not a fan of anything that is forced on the player like these would be.  I think we already have good systems in place for Ravenloft in the form of madness checks and Dark Powers, things that come after a great deal of roleplay and strain on the character over time.

We would have to be looking at a large, forced shift on how character death works on the server before this would make sense, I think.



IrishIron

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #101 on: July 07, 2017, 02:25:49 AM »
A few feats from "Masters of the Wild" DND resource

Favored Critical [General]

You know how to hit your favored enemies where it hurts .
Prerequisites : Base attack bonus +5, at least one favored enemy.
Benefit: Select one of your favored enemies that is normally subject to critical hits. Whenever you attack
this type of creature, the threat range of whatever weapon you are using is doubled . For example, a longsword usually threatens a critical hit on a die roll of 19 or 20 (two numbers) . In the hands of a character with Favored Critical using it against a favored enemy, its threat range becomes 17 through 20 (four numbers). Ifit is also a keen longsword, its threat range becomes 15 through 20 (six numbers : 2 for being a longsword, 2 for being doubled as a keen weapon, and 2 for being doubled again
by Favored Critical) .
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, it applies to a new favored enemy. The effects of this feat do not stack with those of Improved
Critical

Supernatural Blow [General]
Choose one one favored enemy that is immune to critical hits. You know how to place blows against this opponent
for best effect .
Prerequisites : Base attack bonus +7, favored enemy immune to critical hits .
Benefit: Whenever your attack roll against this favored enemy would otherwise be a critical hit, you inflict
+1d6 points of extra damage per damage die that your weapon would do on a critical hit . In addition, your favored enemy damage bonus applies to this creature type normally.
Normal: Creatures that are immune to critical hits are also immune to the favored enemy damage bonus.

IrishIron

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #102 on: July 07, 2017, 02:34:36 AM »
Would be nice to see some ranger specific feats around. These were just two I could remember and pulled out of an old book. With the first feat not stacking with improved CRIT it seems a little silly not to just wait for improved CRIT but just wanted to throw some ideas out there.

I rather like the idea of the second feat

Philos

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #103 on: July 07, 2017, 03:58:05 AM »
Oh. it seems like overwhelming critical but based on favored enemies. That's cool.

Nemesis 24

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #104 on: July 07, 2017, 05:59:20 AM »
It 'does' however seem a bit of a power creep for rangers, who with the 2.0 changes became extremely dangerous regardless.  Bane Bow remains as one of the singularly most lethal threats and weapons available to any character.  I'd be reluctant for either of these feats to be implemented purely based on the fact that Bane Bow exists.  With those feats alone and improved critical you're looking at 17+ crits with +4D6 extra damage with a x3 multiplier.  Add everything else in and you're increasing the already overwhelming damage of a ranger using Bane Bow into the truly obscene territory.

Philos

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #105 on: July 07, 2017, 07:00:52 AM »
This feat is only applicable against enemies that are immune to critical hits. The extra 2d6 in the case of bow and 1d6 for longsword/short sword is not on top of a crit but rather in place of it.

EO

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #106 on: July 07, 2017, 07:07:12 AM »
There's no way to add those feats in NwN due to engine limitations.

ladylena

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #107 on: July 07, 2017, 09:13:42 AM »
With this next HAK update do you suppose more options for tailoring may be added? Perhaps make gloves something that can be crafted? Or cloaks?

I do think Nems idea has potential, perhaps since it is rather easy to become badly impaired, the effects listed would be temporary? Lasting IG days depending on character level? For example, a level 3 badly impaired would possibly be stuck with one of those "marks" for three IG days. Where a level 14 would take longer to recover from such a thing.  I think it would be great, people die all the time on the server and it's treated like nothing more than a nap.
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bocian

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #108 on: July 07, 2017, 09:17:49 AM »
I'm against adding forced mechanical death effects into the game. The idea overall is very good, I'd suggest adding all these options to RP guidelines on how to handle being raised from the dead - while being optional, they could help people add some flavor and give some ideas how to RP it.
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IrishIron

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #109 on: July 07, 2017, 10:24:11 AM »
It 'does' however seem a bit of a power creep for rangers, who with the 2.0 changes became extremely dangerous regardless.  Bane Bow remains as one of the singularly most lethal threats and weapons available to any character.  I'd be reluctant for either of these feats to be implemented purely based on the fact that Bane Bow exists.  With those feats alone and improved critical you're looking at 17+ crits with +4D6 extra damage with a x3 multiplier.  Add everything else in and you're increasing the already overwhelming damage of a ranger using Bane Bow into the truly obscene territory.

Kind of moot since as EO said can't be added in the engine but Favored Critical says right in the description it does not stack with Improved Critical. It is in effect a lesser version of it that can be gotten sooner while only effecting one of your favored enemies.
And as Philos said there wouldnt be 4d6 extra damage on a bow nor would it be multiplied.

Night of Reod

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #110 on: July 07, 2017, 06:26:53 PM »
It 'does' however seem a bit of a power creep for rangers, who with the 2.0 changes became extremely dangerous regardless.  Bane Bow remains as one of the singularly most lethal threats and weapons available to any character.  I'd be reluctant for either of these feats to be implemented purely based on the fact that Bane Bow exists.  With those feats alone and improved critical you're looking at 17+ crits with +4D6 extra damage with a x3 multiplier.  Add everything else in and you're increasing the already overwhelming damage of a ranger using Bane Bow into the truly obscene territory.

 I think you are massively overestimating how strong Bane Bow is as a spell. Putting aside the fact that it lasts for a relatively short amount of time, when we compare it to its sister spell, Holy Sword, it only does 1d6 more damage than Holy Sword and only against favoured enemies, while Holy Sword works against all evil targets, which is the vast majority of the enemies in the game. Holy sword also has a dispelling effect and spell resistance attached. Ranged combat is also generally more limited as well due to how NWN engine handles it and how enemy AI reacts to it making it more difficult to make the most of the short time limit as if you rush things, you will likely get agro and be in melee range with a bow, which is generally not good.

 Furthermore, you can get an extra 2d6 damage against a fair number of enemies, and pretty much all the time assuming you are using a bow, without the time, spell slot, favoured enemy and level restraints of Bane Bow, with just 3 levels of Rogue or getting 2d6 sneak attack damage from some other class. The enhancement bonus is only 1 more than a GMW spell cast by a high level caster, or 2 more from a very common varnish, which is whilst nice, not massive by any means. I never heard anyone say that 2d6 sneak attack made anything singularly most lethal threat against crit susceptible enemies.

 While I don't think in particular that rangers need buffing, I think you are valuing Bane Bow much more than it warrants, and I think it makes little sense to be against any Ranger improvements purely because of Bane Bow.

 As for suggestions for Rangers, I would like to see Animal Companions become available at earlier levels. Preferably at level 1, since animal companions are mostly RP tools more so than anything else due to the changes to the server compared to the base game, or at least at level 4, when they get access to their spells. Also, I would like to see the 3rd level spell slots for Ranger given more value, as currently, pretty much all of them are situational at best. Simply increasing the duration of Blade Thirst to be on par with GMW but having it cap at 12, kind of like Hawk's Flight, or making it the same as GMW but only for slashing and piercing weapons for the flavor, would already help make Rangers be more versatile while not upsetting the game balance. Adding Claws of the Savage as a 3rd level spell to Rangers would also be an interesting option, and it would have synergy with Magic Fang and Ram's Might, both spells they have access to. I think those would make 3rd level spell slots look better for Rangers without much effort and without upsetting balance.

ladylena

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #111 on: July 07, 2017, 07:23:44 PM »
I agree with Reod, I timed my banebow spell it lasted like 12 seconds? It was very short.
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Nemesis 24

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #112 on: July 07, 2017, 07:42:21 PM »
Most of my observations in this regard to Bane Bow are linked to watching what Ryuul, the lvl 17 ranger with Bane Bow was able to do with it, using completely ordinary arrows, and in a purely PvP sense.  To summarise, Ryuul was able to easily drop even a buffed opponent in little more than a round, a single critical hit in his shots fired would absolutely end the fight.  This wasn't against low level opponents, either.  Significant numbers of these enemies were in the 14+ level range, and he also sent level 20 wizards running or dead.  The lethality of it came from its range and suddenness, and he was only beaten at all if he allowed you to do so by engaging in close combat.  Vampire or not, it wouldn't be entirely difficult to reach an appreciable level of power with a plain human or elven ranger.  In PvP with Bane Bow, it would be quite simple to eliminate practically anyone in a matter of seconds, without even needing sneak attack.  The consistent non situational damage is all that's needed - and that's what I object to being added to in a flat baseline as suggested above.

Night of Reod

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #113 on: July 08, 2017, 05:47:05 AM »
 I have personally seen a high level multiclass rogue do over a hundred points of damage in half a round with some lucky crits, and that was against a fuly buffed character of decent level due to a missclick with knockdown during a Perfidus run. Given ideal setup, there are a lot of combinations that can achieve similar things, for example the infamous scythe using Weapon Master, who can crit for over 200 damage, effectively killing most characters in a single hit. There are a lot of factors at play here, but in NWN and especially in PotM where there aren't many high end magic items to make up for a lack of buffs, characters that are buffed and prepared will always seem overwhelming when put up against those that are not. I think it is not good practice to use a single incident in a vacuum to make such claims.

 As for it being PvP, ranged attacks also have the disadvantage of being obsolete as soon as your target steps behind a cover, and they also don't get attacks of opportunity whenever your target drinks a potion, casts a spell or uses a scroll. And of course you can always argue that you can ambush someone in the open field, where there is little cover and hard to get away, but that takes us back to the previous point of perfect setup. You can easily argue as well that a melee class with just basic buffs or even no buffs getting the drop on someone with no points in Discipline would be just as deadly, if not more. And in the same sense of perfect setup, as you put it in your post, you could do the opposite and catch him in melee, which makes him much less potent. There is counterplay already present in that system and it is up to the individual players to acquire the favourable setup for themselves. I still disagree that Bane Bow is as strong as you make it out to be.

 But I digress, this is not a psot about balance but about suggestions for the hak update. As for actual suggestions, I would love to see some of the Large Shield models be used as Tower Shield models, especially the round Viking shields, as they are fairly big, bigger than even a fair number of Tower Shield models, and there are only two round Tower Shield models available currently.

Nemesis 24

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #114 on: July 08, 2017, 06:42:52 AM »
I'll make one last point to this.  If it was a singular incident, I'd agree with you - however, it was absolutely not the case.  This was observed to happen many, many times over, again and again, and quite consistently.

The problem is, is that ranger has enormous stealth potential, and it has outdoor HiPS as well, combined with a max AB, stackable strength buffs and high damage output.  This creates an ostensible scenario where the ranger can inflict a high level of damage, utilise faster move speed and HiPS to remain out of combat, with a high potential to leave combat, and an enormous damage output.  Bane Bow ignores any damage reduction, causes high levels of damage, can be done at range and used by a class that can avoid retaliation by using HiPS.  A baseline damage increase is, as a result, an exponential potential increase.  Right now I think its actually quite balanced while being very scary.  I don't advocate at all it being made stronger however.  I'm arguing things are pretty good as they are, I don't see it needing a base damage increase.

Night of Reod

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #115 on: July 08, 2017, 09:20:41 AM »
 What I mean to say is that you are presenting it as if Bane Bow or rangers are the only thing that can do such a thing. I have seen other stealth characters do similar things in and out of melee without ranger levels or Bane Bow. Furthermore, the feats do state they don't stack with improved critical, and the extra damage only applies to things that are immune to critical hits, in the place of a critical hit if you do satisfy the conditions for one, which you seem to have missed.

 I would argue that the only class that is overtuned and needs to be looked at and taken back a notch is Paladin, but again, this is not a class or balance discussion topic. As for further suggestions, I would love to see Pathfinder setting be added as an option for the character background, as it was confirmed that it is allowed and we even have a few items from Golarion present in the game.


Iridni Ren

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #116 on: July 08, 2017, 04:42:57 PM »
I read on Discord that the devs aren't considering any additional new content for this hak.

So guess we're done here :)

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EO

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #117 on: July 09, 2017, 09:50:04 PM »
Added a few more feats:

Profane Lifeleech
Profane Outburst
Hands of a Healer
Divine Energy Focus
Augment Elemental
Dirge of Woe

Also, revised the duration of Oaken Resilience to Rounds/Level (with the +1 turn all short term duration buffs gets).

DreamlessWalker

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #118 on: July 09, 2017, 11:33:29 PM »
Not entirely sure if this belongs here, but:

Any undead summoned/created/animated via a spell or a feat will remain after the duration of their stay expires, but as uncontrolled, hostile NPCs.

This would allow any caster to eventually regain control of their minion via 'Control Undead' (And spend a high tier slot) or to have a powerful undead go berserk in a given area.

This would serve to make the expensive process of buffing an undead worthwhile, since even with all the planned feats, the core problem with using undead is their duration.

Regardless of the suggestion above:

Have Pale Masters gradually gain some or all of the Undead feats mentioned in the upcoming list.

If this proves problematic, feel free to trade it with an existing feat or even the stat gain.

BahamutZ3RO

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #119 on: July 21, 2017, 06:38:35 PM »
Any chance of Practiced Spellcaster, or is that impossible?

Quote
Practiced Spellcaster

( Complete Divine, p. 82)

[General]

Choose a spellcasting class that you possess. Your spells cast from that class are more powerful.

Prerequisite

Spellcraft 4 ranks,

Benefit
Your caster level for the chosen spellcasting class increases by +4. This can't increase your caster level beyond your HD. However, even if you can't benefit from the full bonus immediately, if you later gain noncaster-level HD you may be able to apply the rest of the bonus. For example, a human 5th-level cleric/3rd-level fighter who selects this feat would increase his cleric caster level from 5th to 8th (since he has 8 HD). If he later gained a fighter level, he would gain the remainder of the bonus and his cleric caster level would become 9th (since he now has 9 HD). A character with two or more spellcasting classes (such as a bard/sorcerer or a ranger/druid) must choose which class gains the feat's effect. This does not affect your spells per day or spells known. It only increases your caster level, which would help you penetrate SR and increase the duration and other effects of your spells.
: )




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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #120 on: July 21, 2017, 09:20:04 PM »
Any chance of Practiced Spellcaster, or is that impossible?

Quote
Practiced Spellcaster

( Complete Divine, p. 82)

[General]

Choose a spellcasting class that you possess. Your spells cast from that class are more powerful.

Prerequisite

Spellcraft 4 ranks,

Benefit
Your caster level for the chosen spellcasting class increases by +4. This can't increase your caster level beyond your HD. However, even if you can't benefit from the full bonus immediately, if you later gain noncaster-level HD you may be able to apply the rest of the bonus. For example, a human 5th-level cleric/3rd-level fighter who selects this feat would increase his cleric caster level from 5th to 8th (since he has 8 HD). If he later gained a fighter level, he would gain the remainder of the bonus and his cleric caster level would become 9th (since he now has 9 HD). A character with two or more spellcasting classes (such as a bard/sorcerer or a ranger/druid) must choose which class gains the feat's effect. This does not affect your spells per day or spells known. It only increases your caster level, which would help you penetrate SR and increase the duration and other effects of your spells.

This would be an awesome feat for multiclass casters, especially palemaster.

Inti

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #121 on: September 02, 2017, 08:49:07 PM »
If these made it into this hak update it would be amazing, but it not - for a possible future one:

Fixing of oriental musical instruments (not sure if that even needs a hak update, but currently they are not being held correctly when equipped).


Stuff from here, specifically the owls: https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/hakpak/original-hakpak/custom-content-challenge-july-2017-all-things-aerial

A shop/inn/themed interior for halflings.

Better fox models.

'Tame Animal'/ 'Pet'  function/feat/item.  Basically allowing PCs to have pets that are not magical familiars. For example: one may use the special skill to 'tame' a small beastie which results in an item in the inventory allowing one to summon such a beastie at will until such time that the beastie dies - or even better - if you spawn it near some hostile mobs, it would just run away never to return to you. Possible elaboration: summoning the critter will require using an item of food in the inventory.  Anyway, I could go on with many more ideas, but better stop now, as I realise all and any of this is perhaps a bit of a tall order at this stage.
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Nemesis 24

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #122 on: September 03, 2017, 08:59:54 AM »
OWLS!!

NEED MORE OWLS.

Seriously though, I'm sad this wasn't suggested much earlier because OWLS.

Philos

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #123 on: September 03, 2017, 10:29:44 AM »
OWLS!!

NEED MORE OWLS.

Seriously though, I'm sad this wasn't suggested much earlier because OWLS.

OWLS!

I second this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8el_P4yvfc

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Re: Suggestions for next hak update [Unofficial]
« Reply #124 on: September 05, 2017, 10:05:59 AM »
I've a secondary request related to the hak update.

I'd like to suggest we have unique art assets for all our unique content consolidate all our unique art assets into the rl_addons.hak
The earlier custom content often made use of existing art assets present within the game, presumably to save time making unique art for new content. We had not commited to such large projects as these latest two hak updates so the additions were few and oftentimes, no new art was deemed necessary.
At this point however, might I suggest we give all our unique content a unique asset tag so that they may be represented individually. NWN itself did this in some instances, such as the spellcraft skill and spell focus feat sharing an icon. I would make a complete list of such duplicate icons if we're willing to do this. One of the potm specific examples that come to mind is that the weapon proficiency (creature) feat and our custom warding gesture feat share an icon. So to make a custom icon for warding gesture means that anyone will see that icon on creature character sheets as well. This all can be avoided, if only by making a duplicate of the same art asset with a different name and putting it all together in the rl_assetname nomenclature. Its just a suggestion. I'm willing to assist if its deemed feasible.

I realize I am only representing the viewpoint of an aftermarket custom icon modifier, but it would solve three problems at once.
-It would allow people to use overrides with PotMs unique feats, skills, etc icons without affecting any other servers or offline game they might play.
-It would make it much more easily distinguishable which are modifications unique to our server while looking through the games files
-It would allow for creating icons that are unique to the feat or spell rather than the icon being shared between two distinct features of the game.


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