Author Topic: Pickpocket (2017)  (Read 2187 times)

booksarefun666

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Pickpocket (2017)
« on: April 24, 2017, 01:37:10 AM »
So now that pickpocket's been nerfed, what do you guys think of how it stands? From what I understand they completely got rid of all high value items and replaced it with random, low-value things and I've seen statements that it's now useless and I don't doubt many people releveled to get rid of their pickpocket as a result.

While my personal feelings are grateful it's broken because it was really, really easy money I can understand the people that state it's broken. So, how is your current haul? How much would you get if you put all your stuff in a box and sold it to a merchant?

I haven't pickpocketed recently so I have no personal ancedotes about my haul at the moment but I do have some suggestions on how to make it more worthwhile.

1. Revise the PvP rules so you don't have to hostile people to pickpocket them. This is actually two fold; first because with the hostile you have a DC 30 + spot check to get someone's gear. A pickpocket of 30 is actually really hard to get without a few levels under your belt, let alone a pickpocket of 40 or 50. Second is because the person would still be notified if the person biffed the roll and as a result, know if they're getting pickpocketed because of a bad roll or something as opposed to already knowing OOCly by getting hostiled. It does remove the possibility of meta off the table and ease arbitration between authority figures and players.

2. Beef up port-au-lucine's publique loot. This one already makes sense ICly because the richest people are already there and it's heavily patroled by NPC and player gendarme, so the risk would be extremely higher and already facilitate roleplay.

So what do you guys think?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 01:43:22 AM by booksarefun666 »

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Re: Pickpocket (2017)
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2017, 01:51:26 AM »
Making it so you don't have to hostile for Pickpocket is something I don't see going well.  For one, stealing from players should be difficult.  It's doable in it's current state, but really not worth it. The reward is never really going to be worth the risk there, considering people are almost certain to corpse hide you for an offense against their personal property.  As someone who's extensively stolen from players, I can say they take it more seriously than character death in most cases since items are harder to replace than just getting raised.

Also, not having them hostile means that when they catch you, they have to hostile you from the radial/player list/quickslotted ability before attacking you back.  That's way unfair to the victim here.


As far as the whole pickpocketing NPCs thing, I had stopped doing it long before the nerf came across so I definitely don't do it now.  But Emptyanima and I were discussing it just the other day and I believe she told me that in a full run of every NPC in the entire noble's district, she made 150gp and most items sold for 1-3gp each.  Perhaps she can shed more light on that.  Maybe sometime I'll take a PC with pickpocket and screenshot exactly what I get and how much it sells for so we can have some hard proof for the non-believers. 

Though I think it should remain useless unless there's some kind of OCR bump (or other punishment) for failure.  That was always my biggest problem with the old method.  Not that it was easy money- that it was easy money and failure had zero concequences.  If you got an OCR bump on failure, even of just 1 point that stacks, that would have ruled out like 80% of the people who were doing it.  Or they'd just be perma-hostile in Barovia, which is balance in itself to me.

booksarefun666

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Re: Pickpocket (2017)
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2017, 02:17:59 AM »


Also, not having them hostile means that when they catch you, they have to hostile you from the radial/player list/quickslotted ability before attacking you back.  That's way unfair to the victim here.


At first, sure, but it's a small server when you start getting caught and you're bound to remember the guy that ran away and you'd have due IC reason to deal with him when you see him again or report him to the guards. I'm sure you're all too familiar with how foaming at the mouth players can get when their items get taken.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 02:20:32 AM by booksarefun666 »

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Re: Pickpocket (2017)
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2017, 08:55:29 AM »

I agree with the sentiment about needing to hostile before pickpocketing.  It's not fair to the victim to have to do an OOC mechanic of finding the player name in the player list (I didn't even know it was available in the radial menu).  I know pickpocketing is a form of PVP on many servers, if it is considered PVP here, then you should hostile first. 

Someone being on edge from the OOC mechanic of being hostiled is probably going to give you problems regardless of what the rules are.  You shouldn't be punishing the rest of players who don't react until something IC actually happens.

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Re: Pickpocket (2017)
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2017, 07:59:22 PM »


It would be cool if there was a bounty board item that could be found via PP.

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Re: Pickpocket (2017)
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2017, 09:02:47 PM »
Perhaps one of the many NPCs in the Drain could offer such (it would be odd on the Bounty Board).


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Re: Pickpocket (2017)
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2017, 09:40:14 PM »
It wouldn't be that odd, a bounty requesting the recovery of stolen good... seems legit to me on the bounty board.


Also... I don't understand why removing the hostile rule for pick pocket. I can't see that ending well at all personally. Also that rule have been there for ages, I highly doubt its going to change as its been mostly a winning formula up to now I believe.
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Re: Pickpocket (2017)
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2017, 10:32:37 PM »
Imagine some cellerdweller has a hitlist of jobs for immoral characters. They can steal certain items for bounties, but being caught alerts guards and raises ocr or something.

It could stimulate faction dynamics, even.

booksarefun666

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Re: Pickpocket (2017)
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2017, 11:10:45 PM »
Changing the rules would probably be an annoying process anyway and I'm purposely not mentioning things like quests for the sake of simplicity, since it's easier to suggest than to actually program and I'm not a dev but if the actual devs are certainly open to bounty board stuff for pickpocketing then I can't help but to +1 that.

William Roberts

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Re: Pickpocket (2017)
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2017, 12:37:11 AM »
It wouldn't be that odd, a bounty requesting the recovery of stolen good... seems legit to me on the bounty board.

I find it pretty odd that the garda would encourage anyone to pickpocket something, yes. Even if the item was stolen, you have two choices:

1) The garda know who stole it and tell you to go get it. Maybe, but they would want to punish the (known) thief, not just recover the item. Why would they tell you to pickpocket it and leave the thief alone? Even if one accepts the odd "Mission Impossible" scenario, would that recur with regularity so that the garda every week have a new quest where they want you to steal something back but let the thief be?

2) The garda don't know who stole it. So now they're telling you to pickpocket random people until you find it?

It makes much more sense that the criminal element (in the Drain) would be running quests that require stealing than would the garda.


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Re: Pickpocket (2017)
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2017, 12:41:27 AM »
It would be cool if there was a bounty board item that could be found via PP.
Perhaps one of the many NPCs in the Drain could offer such (it would be odd on the Bounty Board).

It's been suggested (http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=44354.msg558181#msg558181) and I know that Arawn is working on several illicit bounties/quests. More ideas for illegal bounties or others ways to utilize PP would be welcome. Hopefully we'll see some soon.

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Re: Pickpocket (2017)
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2017, 06:32:01 PM »
It wouldn't be that odd, a bounty requesting the recovery of stolen good... seems legit to me on the bounty board.

I find it pretty odd that the garda would encourage anyone to pickpocket something, yes. Even if the item was stolen, you have two choices:

1) The garda know who stole it and tell you to go get it. Maybe, but they would want to punish the (known) thief, not just recover the item. Why would they tell you to pickpocket it and leave the thief alone? Even if one accepts the odd "Mission Impossible" scenario, would that recur with regularity so that the garda every week have a new quest where they want you to steal something back but let the thief be?

2) The garda don't know who stole it. So now they're telling you to pickpocket random people until you find it?

It makes much more sense that the criminal element (in the Drain) would be running quests that require stealing than would the garda.


The bounty doesn't say "Go pickpocket everyone you can until you find that object." That is silly and obviously doesn't work.

The bounty could say "This object was stolen from me, I offer this to whoever brings it back." That on the other hand could work.
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