Author Topic: Trade License - Name Suggestion  (Read 377 times)

Legion XXI

  • Community Council
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1204
  • Nemo me impune lacessit
Trade License - Name Suggestion
« on: April 18, 2017, 02:33:34 AM »
I noticed today that when you buy a trade license, it says your PC's name on it.  There's no way to edit or alter this, and it forces you to use the actual character name above your PCs head.  You run into awkward situations when your PC isn't using that name, because there's no possible way to get a license with the name they'd use while merchanting.  Then you have to send the Garda who inevitably ask why someone else's name is on the license tells explaining the situation.

My suggestion is to add an option to the guy who sells them.  You can either select [tell him your name] like normal, and get the license with the floaty name on it, or maybe there could be another option that is something like "[Tell him a specific name]" and then you could type in the name you'd like to have on the license.

It's a very minor thing, but could be huge for anyone who is trying to sell under a second identity / disguise / whatever else.

emptyanima

  • Making & Breaking Characters Since May 2013
  • Gendarmerie
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 2811
  • She Who Slays Dragons
    • Emptyanima Portrait Pack
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2017, 02:38:27 AM »
Love this.

DM Brimstone

  • Community Council
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1517
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2017, 03:51:03 AM »
My suggestion is to add an option to the guy who sells them.  You can either select [tell him your name] like normal, and get the license with the floaty name on it, or maybe there could be another option that is something like "[Tell him a specific name]" and then you could type in the name you'd like to have on the license.

If it is a legit license, I'd say that it is best that you have to use your character's real name.  If you go with the forgery option, I'm all for this. It ups the risk and gives added incentive to go with a forged license versus a legitimate one.  Just my 2 cents.

Pav

  • Now is the WORST time to invest in the
  • Red Vardo Traders Front
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 624
  • Probably out to ruin your day
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2017, 04:03:32 AM »
My suggestion is to add an option to the guy who sells them.  You can either select [tell him your name] like normal, and get the license with the floaty name on it, or maybe there could be another option that is something like "[Tell him a specific name]" and then you could type in the name you'd like to have on the license.

If it is a legit license, I'd say that it is best that you have to use your character's real name.  If you go with the forgery option, I'm all for this. It ups the risk and gives added incentive to go with a forged license versus a legitimate one.  Just my 2 cents.

What if your character goes by a name that is their legitimate name but isn't the one floating over your head? I think Legion's suggestion is fine and should be implemented.
Currently Playing:
Erwin von Brandt - Roxanne Laurier - Elkhas Theanskyr - Alton'rak My'lyl

Jeebs

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2017, 04:06:02 AM »
Right, if you're legitimately getting it made, how do they know what your name is? You'd have to tell them, obviously. I'd say a forgery would be more along the lines of getting a fake license made to look like a real one rather than having a name your character regularly uses that the average bloke would have no way of knowing isn't actually your real name.

Arawn

  • CC, Developers, and
  • Dungeon Masters
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 6049
  • Gwrandewch ar y cwn.
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2017, 04:16:27 AM »
Display names are not considered IC, although they have to follow the rules. I like this solution and will look into it.
Hir yw'r dydd a hir yw'r nos, a hir yw aros Arawn.

Norture

  • Still noobin' it up.
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3394
  • ???
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2017, 12:55:25 PM »
How are display names not IC if it's part of the license? I used this before when trying to track a person and had his name on his trade license. Is it not considered legitimate knowledge to read that the trade license is in someone's name? IMO if trade license names aren't IC info, they should be treated fully as OOC info so it's not confusing. Have it say //This license is for Dario Corvi, or something to that effect. Otherwise, if it looks like a normal IC thing, how am I supposed to know it's not IC?

Jeebs

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2017, 01:41:08 PM »
Yeah, that's the point Legion was trying to make. By default it puts your character's name on the license even if that's not the name you go by. Although personally I feel that if you're going by a certain name more than any other, that's the one that should be showing up over your head IG. Allowing you to specify the name that goes on the license would solve that issue though.

Arawn

  • CC, Developers, and
  • Dungeon Masters
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 6049
  • Gwrandewch ar y cwn.
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2017, 01:48:58 PM »
Norture, I mean the display name floating over your head. You can't look at someone, read that name, and know it IC.
Hir yw'r dydd a hir yw'r nos, a hir yw aros Arawn.

Norture

  • Still noobin' it up.
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3394
  • ???
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2017, 01:50:38 PM »
So how does this factor into trade licenses then? Is the name on a trade license IC or not IC?

Ambrosius

  • Spinner of Yarns
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 555
  • Tea and Cake
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2017, 02:07:19 PM »
It is IC "name on the license", but they're asking there be a means to have a false name put on the licenses; for those using fake or alternate names while
trading and using the license. 

Norture

  • Still noobin' it up.
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3394
  • ???
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2017, 02:22:49 PM »
Yes I get that, but there was also a DM ruling made in this thread, and I want to make sure 100% that I understand this ruling. Is Arawn's ruling ONLY for names floating over one's head? That makes sense, that is meta-information, IC our chars cannot see a name floating over someone's head. Does this ruling also apply to trade licenses too then? If it does, I disagree with it because those are an IC object that our chars can see.

Legion XXI

  • Community Council
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1204
  • Nemo me impune lacessit
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2017, 02:28:55 PM »
Arawn is just saying that the floaty name isn't an IC thing for the NPC sitting in the chair who says "What's your name?"   He's saying if you were to give him any name in the world, he wouldn't know the difference, because he doesn't know your PC and can't see his name.  He wasn't saying you can't read someone's name off a trade license.  The underlined portion of the statement "Display names are not considered IC, although they have to follow the rules." implies that what is being discussed there is the floaty name, the one we have rules about.  Not the name on the trade license, which IS actually IC because it's part of an IC document that exists in the world. 

If that document wasn't considered IC, this whole thread wouldn't be necessary and he wouldn't have agreed to look into possible changes.  He'd have just said "That name is ooc, it doesn't matter"

Sorry for speaking for you Arawn, and I could be entirely wrong here, just wanted to clarify before things got too off-track lol.

Arawn

  • CC, Developers, and
  • Dungeon Masters
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 6049
  • Gwrandewch ar y cwn.
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2017, 02:46:52 PM »
Arawn is just saying that the floaty name isn't an IC thing for the NPC sitting in the chair who says "What's your name?"   He's saying if you were to give him any name in the world, he wouldn't know the difference, because he doesn't know your PC and can't see his name.  He wasn't saying you can't read someone's name off a trade license.  The underlined portion of the statement "Display names are not considered IC, although they have to follow the rules." implies that what is being discussed there is the floaty name, the one we have rules about.  Not the name on the trade license, which IS actually IC because it's part of an IC document that exists in the world. 

If that document wasn't considered IC, this whole thread wouldn't be necessary and he wouldn't have agreed to look into possible changes.  He'd have just said "That name is ooc, it doesn't matter"

^
Hir yw'r dydd a hir yw'r nos, a hir yw aros Arawn.

modderpunk

  • Developers
  • Dark Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 631
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2017, 02:33:09 AM »
And the point is worth noting as i have had several times had characters adress my incognito pc with his displayed name without him having introduced himself. Though this is more a different topic.

On topic, i like the idea.



Building out off the mists

Troukk

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1257
  • A pig. In a cage. On antibiotics.
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2017, 08:24:05 AM »
I agree with Legion's proposal, but I'm gonna try to be devil's advocate here so we can see another angle of the problem:

Providing a name ourselves is abusable, isn't it?

One of the advantages of this system is that an outcast or a wanted PC (Evil Mc Evilface) can't interact with the PC that sells trade licences, so they can't get a trade license, as he shouldn't. But now some other char could go to the NPC and tell him his name is Evil McEvilface and then hand the license to the PC that needs it.

On the other hand, this could actually happen IC. Barovia is a medieval country and impersonating someone for a document seems doable. It's not like they had biometrics back in the day.

In the end, I still agree with the proposal, the pros outweight the cons, but these are points you might want to consider.

DrXavierTColtrane

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 721
Re: Trade License - Name Suggestion
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2017, 09:30:01 AM »
One of the advantages of this system is that an outcast or a wanted PC (Evil Mc Evilface) can't interact with the PC that sells trade licences, so they can't get a trade license, as he shouldn't. But now some other char could go to the NPC and tell him his name is Evil McEvilface and then hand the license to the PC that needs it.

On the other hand, this could actually happen IC. Barovia is a medieval country and impersonating someone for a document seems doable. It's not like they had biometrics back in the day.

It's a can o' worms. I've never liked the trade licenses anyway because it doesn't make sense to me that you have a Market District within Vallaki proper with stalls and shops run by Vallaki citizens, and yet the local government supports a system to drive commerce to the Outskirts. The point of a guild/license system is going to be to discourage competition, as well as provide tax revenue. For a modern example, see the Chicago taxi medallion versus Uber:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-201509221800--tms--savagectnts-a20150922-20150922-column.html

Trade in the Outskirts should be more that merchants must hazard the night (when garda aren't around), or that garda just come through and demand bribes every now and then to look the other way. Or the merchants get driven off when more scrupulous garda come through. This should be especially true for Outlander merchants and doubly true for Outlanders selling anything suspect.

The license was supposed to promote more RP (the above seems like RP to me). Instead, I usually see merchants putting their license on the ground by their stall so that garda don't question them.

Going to your point, yes, the entire identification part based on name doesn't really fit with the setting when positive ID was very difficult to prove. Think of Martin Guerre or even more famously, Jesus. Why was it necessary for Judas to kiss Jesus? Because at night he and his disciples (presumably) looked a lot alike, even to people who saw him "preaching daily in the Temple." Later, we also have the example of Peter warming himself by the fire and denying that he is Peter to the woman who identifies him.

Barovia is a place in which visibility is often reduced. At night there's no electrical lighting or streetlights. Try walking around your house by candlelight sometime!

IMO you'd have lots of cases of mistaken identity, and the burden of proof would be on the person identified to prove they were not who others claimed they were. (Another example, albeit fictional: in Les Miserables the man who is almost convicted of being Jean Valjean until the real Jean Valjean comes forward. Yet Jean Valjean is able to become mayor and pass unrecognized even to Javert by dressing differently and taking a good bath.)

The text name floating over your head seems to me to be a game mechanic for simplicity. Although it's true many people want the realism of "you don't know my name until I tell you" (never mind that someone else may have identified you to me and you don't realize that), does anyone RP the same with NPCs? Or do you use this meta information to know which foes in a group to target as priorities and how? Do you use the information in tracking Port bounties, for example?

IMO if you don't want people "recognizing" you, wear a hood and put it in your Examine text as signals. Otherwise, if my PC doesn't know you, I will RP that, but I really don't understand those who take on names different from their floaty text and expect everyone to remember that about their character.

You picked your name when you created the character. Why didn't you pick the one you want to go by?

Okay, you're in disguise now, but as the discussion above should evidence, the name isn't what gives you away! Changing your name isn't a disguise. Even today, how many terrorists have similar names? Is that how they're tracked and caught, or is it how they look?

I think it's the responsibility of those who assume different identities to communicate that they are in disguise by wearing hoods and/or changing their description, rather than getting upset that other PCs can't guess that and react to the very obvious floaty text instead. At least until some mechanical means is implemented (such as setting the text a certain color like light gray when incognito?).
For everything that's lovely is
But a brief, dreamy, kind delight.