Nerf of Blautein's merchant

[julienchab]

You need to make investing skill points in Appraise worth of it.

My understanding of the new system is that the appraise skill is quite useful again. People investing massively in appraise will get much better prices than those who do not since it now raises or decreases the merchant cap directly. So each time you add a point the maximum amount you can get for selling items rises too even at the higher level. With the proper investment in points, all the stats boosting items and spells, and feats available, a character can make a lucrative profit well over the standard cap now. It is a significant skill again.

Merchants atill have some caps right? I like what was done, since it is useful to have some appraise, but won't the cap put a stop to the number of appraise skill points someone with invest? For example, if at 20 appraise i am maxed out at a merchant, whats the point in getting my appraise to 30, if I wont be able to get better prices for the most valuable items?

[MAB77]

Quite the contrary in fact. The skill modifies the cap, not the way around. The more appraise you have, the higher the cap. Each points in appraise mean better prices at merchants even at very high levels, it will always go up the more points you put in the skill.

[MAB77]

For that answer you will have to find out yourself in game. The caps of merchants have been adjusted for all domains, so explore have fun. Mind you, it does not mean we're done adjusting the skill or the merchant caps. There is always room for improvements after all, we'll see how the new system turns out and revise if need be.

[HellsPanda]

Basically they set a top price for each merchant that is directly modified by the appraise skill, and each item has a set price. So to get the most money, you need a good appraise skill compared to the NPC, but if you have a low one, your cap will be lower.

[NWN_lovableweremink]

With a appraise skill of 16, stores in and around Vallaki have a capped price of 228.

[Legion XXI]

With a appraise skill of 16, stores in and around Vallaki have a capped price of 228.

If I'm not mistaken, that's a 14% increase from a base 200.  And considering you can reach around 10 or so appraise through commonly found gear, if you combine that will skill points, or feats, or whatever else you could probably reach a decent price increase.  Especially when that percentage is translated to domains with a higher base price, like perhaps Port-a-Lucine or the Mist Camp.  It would be interesting to see what a dedicated "Merchant" build could reach, I think.  (Silver palm, skill focus appraise, max ranks, background feats, so on...)

[MAB77]

Remember it's your appraise - the vendor's appraise. Then it is a 1% bonus increase per skill point total reached. Dedicated merchants will reap fortunes.

[julienchab]

So, just did a bit of testing about the new appraise. We tried with some appraise of 30, of 35 and of 48. The prices given to us were the exact same, even with big differences in appraise as 30 and 48.

[booksarefun666]

I don't think it has to do with the prices of the items. The prices of the items stay the same but the cap the merchants are willing to dole out increases.

So if you sold a super cool weapon a total schmuck would get 200 gp, while max appraise dude would get a 2000 gp cap.

[McNastea]

I think the point is they found an item that pushed against the max, then had three people with vastly different appraise rolls try to sell it and came up wit the same max price.

Given it was exactly 1000, the number the merchant in particular had been capped at when changed prior to the newest of the newest changes, I'd think it's worth looking in to

[EO]

So, just did a bit of testing about the new appraise. We tried with some appraise of 30, of 35 and of 48. The prices given to us were the exact same, even with big differences in appraise as 30 and 48.

OcR also affects it.

As for prices, NwN has always capped the % item price adjustment at 30%. We kept that same cap but when it comes to the merchant's actual maximum buy price, appraise can have an impact up to 50% (so a difference of 50 between the PC's Appraise - OcR and the merchant's Appraise).

I would suggest reading this to understand how Appraise works in vanilla NwN:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Appraise

The prices are adjusted by a percentage equal to the difference in the die rolls, subject to a 30% cap.

[julienchab]

So, just did a bit of testing about the new appraise. We tried with some appraise of 30, of 35 and of 48. The prices given to us were the exact same, even with big differences in appraise as 30 and 48.

OcR also affects it.

As for prices, NwN has always capped the % item price adjustment at 30%. We kept that same cap but when it comes to the merchant's actual maximum buy price, appraise can have an impact up to 50% (so a difference of 50 between the PC's Appraise - OcR and the merchant's Appraise).

I would suggest reading this to understand how Appraise works in vanilla NwN:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Appraise

The prices are adjusted by a percentage equal to the difference in the die rolls, subject to a 30% cap.

So having more than 30 appraise is still useless then?

[MAB77]

Only item prices are capped at 30% over their base value.
Merchant caps are not.

Highly valuable items (items whose base value far exceed the merchant cap), sold at the right merchant will still yield more gold to the 40+ appraise char, than the one with 30, because the merchant cap for him is higher. Don't forget too that merchants appraise skills may reduce your own score. So more is always good.

[julienchab]

Remember it's your appraise - the vendor's appraise. Then it is a 1% bonus increase per skill point total reached. Dedicated merchants will reap fortunes.

Only item prices are capped at 30% over their base value.
Merchant caps are not.

Highly valuable items (items whose base value far exceed the merchant cap), sold at the right merchant will still yield more gold to the 40+ appraise char, than the one with 30, because the merchant cap for him is higher. Don't forget too that merchants appraise skills may reduce your own score. So more is always good.

Not sure I understand you Mab. Those two post pretty much contradic one another. You said appraise would up the cap, but then you said there was a maximum cap. So there is a maximum number of points in appraise that is useful.

[MAB77]

Let say you've got a "Lump of Mud" worth 50000 gp in the toolset. That is the item base value.

You sell it at a vendor in Darkon, whose cap is normally 1000 gp. You have 20 appraise. You're friend has 40. You can get 1200gp for the item. Your friend will get 1400 gp.

If the base item was worth 1000 gp. You'd still get 1200 gp, but your friend would only get 1300 because of the 30% limit over item value.

Edited: Note I have to double check the math. I doubt the merchant gives full value to begin with. But you get the point Appraise affects the merchants caps.

[Bad_Bud]

Not sure I understand you Mab. Those two post pretty much contradic one another. You said appraise would up the cap, but then you said there was a maximum cap. So there is a maximum number of points in appraise that is useful.

Appraise will now impact the maximum cap, positively if the difference between the PC's appraise and the NPC's appraise is above 0 and negatively if below 0.

Only if you know the highest appraise score of all merchants for any particular patch of the server. THAT + 30 would be the highest useful appraise score for affecting buy price and THAT + 50 would be the highest useful appraise score for modifying maximum buy price.

[Bad_Bud]

Unofficial Sale Price Formula

https://jscalc.io/calc/6INVTGiPzKrIlqqN

Let O be your outcast rating for the domain
Let A_P be your appraise score
Let A_M be the merchant's appraise score
Let A_D be the difference between appraise scores
Let V_B be the item's base value
Let V_A be the item's adjusted value (no cap)
Let C_B be the merchant's base price cap
Let C_A be the merchants adjusted price cap
Let P be the final sale price

A_D = A_P - O - A_M
V_A = V_B + (V_B * MIN(A_D, 30) / 100)
C_A = C_B + (C_B * MIN(A_D, 50) / 100)
P = MIN(V_A, C_A)

[Weyland]

Unofficial Sale Price Formula

Let O be your outcast rating for the domain
Let A_P be your appraise score
Let A_M be the merchant's appraise score
Let A_D be the difference between appraise scores
Let V_B be the item's base value
Let V_A be the item's adjusted value (no cap)
Let C_B be the merchant's base price cap
Let C_A be the merchants adjusted price cap
Let P be the final sale price

A_D = A_P - O - A_M
V_A = V_B + (V_B * MIN(A_D, 30) / 100)
C_A = C_B + (C_B * MIN(A_D, 50) / 100)
P = MIN(V_A, C_A)

[Bad_Bud]

I added a calculator.

[Hanzo]

Yes, Ingwulf had an excellent idea. Compartmentalized merchants could be a good thing.