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Author Topic: Timestop, and how it works on PotM  (Read 16142 times)

Mereyn

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Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« on: July 21, 2016, 05:03:06 PM »
At this point most people accustomed to PotM's ways in wizardry know the effects of spells. One such spell in particular being Time Stop.
On here the spell allows for very offensive approaches, both on PC and NPC side (everyone who knows Perfidus will know what I mean).
I've been pondering the topic and - in fact - making this thread, for some time now.

What is Time Stop?
  • PotM/NWN: a 9th level spell that lasts for a good 1d4+1 rounds, where none but the caster may act. Any action may be taken, such as tossing a fireball at your enemy.
  • PnP: also a 9th level spell that, again, lasts 1d4+1 rounds. The tricky difference here is, that you basically aren't allowed to harm anything during the spell's duration.
                http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm
Even those not familiar with the full ramifications of the spell in action, can easily discern what kind of outcome an encounter can have, if you were to compare these two.
In that spirit, I'd simply like to ask for opinions on whether a change should be done.
My opinion on this being; Yes, it should. Not only to preserve a more faithful idea of the ruleset, but also to balance the power casters have on this server.
And I'll find most who have played on here for longer than two weeks will agree, that casters are the most powerful class type to choose.

Exordium

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2016, 05:22:27 PM »
This has been talked of quite much, actually. :)

I think at this point it's more or less about someone actually doing the required changes to the spell.

Arawn

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2016, 05:31:25 PM »
Indeed, just speaking for myself, I'm in broad agreement.
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Amon-Si

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2016, 05:48:23 PM »
I wonder how hard that would be to script.

Dumas

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2016, 05:49:30 PM »
Fully in support of this idea. It seems wildly unbalanced as it is now.

julienchab

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2016, 06:17:02 PM »
You say to nerf casters, but all I see here is a nerf to the most powerful spells of Wizards and Sorcerers. Yes, timestop is a very strong spell that is possible overpowered. But with the number of players having access to it, I do not think it is a problem, and I would prefer not seeing a change.

Arawn

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2016, 06:24:46 PM »
I wonder how hard that would be to script.

Easy. You set all PCs in the area of the spell to invulnerable for the duration of the spell.
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Night of Reod

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2016, 06:27:55 PM »
I think a better way to do it would be to have the timestop spell end when you start or finish casting, though I have no idea how hard or easy that would be to script, let alone if it is possible or not.

Arawn

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2016, 06:34:18 PM »
I think a better way to do it would be to have the timestop spell end when you start or finish casting, though I have no idea how hard or easy that would be to script, let alone if it is possible or not.

I'm not sure what you mean. Start or finish casting what?
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Meridian

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2016, 06:37:56 PM »
Getting a ninth level caster is very difficult and time consuming, and it was never intended to be balanced in terms of pvp.
Casters can struggle in many areas but the -very- few who do reach ninth level casters use it respectfully from what I've
seen, and hey magic is powerful.

I know time-stop is changed compared to pnp, but I assume to compensate for the servers difficulty. Would this change
only be done for pvp purposes. I've not actually had a problem with a high level caster using it, it normally saves my alts
life, and as far as I know there are only two casters on the server who possess 9th level spells, perhaps three but not active
much.

I think things are fine as they are, myself.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 06:40:43 PM by Meridian »

Arawn

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2016, 06:45:44 PM »
I know time-stop is changed compared to pnp, but I assume to compensate for the servers difficulty. Would this change
only be done for pvp purposes.
[/quote]

We didn't change it, Bioware did. They almost certainly did it because in single-player it was more tactically interesting.
Hir yw'r dydd a hir yw'r nos, a hir yw aros Arawn.

Mayvind

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2016, 06:53:07 PM »
I think all we need is to reduce the duration, have you ever been stuck in 30 seconds time stop it feel like forever. reduce from 1d4+1 round to 1d2+1 round should fix it. Original timestop was 9 seconds which was too short. with 2d+1 lowest roll is 12 seconds and highest is 18 seconds is enough to run away or cast 2 or 3 spells not entire arsernals barrage of spells missiles.

edit the mistake 4d=1d4 and 2d=1d2
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 02:21:04 AM by Mayvind »

snowfox

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2016, 06:55:30 PM »
You say to nerf casters, but all I see here is a nerf to the most powerful spells of Wizards and Sorcerers. Yes, timestop is a very strong spell that is possible overpowered. But with the number of players having access to it, I do not think it is a problem, and I would prefer not seeing a change.
The number of people having access to it - myself included - does not change whether it is a good or a bad thing. Anything sensible and sensibly designed can be done without using it once. Besides, the primary point is to achieve a more faithful rendition of the spell as it should be, as was done with others already.

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2016, 06:59:38 PM »
I wouldn't say it's just a pvp thing either, although I've seen Natalie floor someone in seconds with it. You can do absolutely ridiculous things with it in PvM, especially as a hasted sorcerer. The best ninja looting class in the game is a mage class because timestop lets you ninja loot areas rogues can't even get near.

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2016, 07:00:12 PM »
I'll just say this..

To me, this game isn't about what's fair-I mean this server. Wizards and sorcerer's, the ones who make it to their 9th circle magic, they are supposed to be near unstoppable forces who command powers beyond that of anyone else. I get why people don't like that they have the spell and the way it can and does get used in a way that's frustrating and pisses you off and makes you want them to not have it. But.. I don't know, I've had it used on me in exactly that way in pvp and had plenty of monsters use it on me as well. I just think that it makes sense for a mage who gets to that point to be like that. You can not like that they can do it but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to, and I just feel like it makes sense that they would be able to.

Also Sithicus is gonna be even more of a bitch without it so *rabble rabble rabble* you're all horrible people and should feel bad!

 :lol:

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FinalHeaven

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2016, 07:23:06 PM »
I don't see any reason it should be changed.  In PvP there are plenty of other ways to gank someone without them having a chance to respond so I think a change to one spell for that purpose is irrelevant.  As for making it more in line with it's pnp version, I believe it's unnecessary.  There are other things I'd rather see worked on.



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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2016, 07:45:50 PM »
Its not even a question about the spell's balance, or lack thereof. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have gained an impression, that the server significantly strives to adhere to the integrity of its PnP counterpart. With the latest hak update, majority of the spell changes revolved about just that - so the question at hand is, why would we exclude time stop from the modification that obviously should take place? It strikes me as nonsensical to arbitrarily impose changes that modify some of the core parts of original NWN (Akin to clerical bonus spell slots), yet deliberately ignore the other aspects that were and continue to be topics of controversy and discussion, like time stop.

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McNastea

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2016, 08:03:53 PM »
Saying that something should be changed because it's controversial doesn't really add up. People thinking that something should be changed is reason to bring it up and discuss the merits of changing it, not a reason -to- change it.

And while there are lots of things that have been changed to be more like pnp, this isn't a binary thing, you don't have to make everything exactly like pnp just because you make any of it like pnp.
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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2016, 08:11:54 PM »
You should do a more thorough read. I didn't name the controversy behind the topic as a valid reason for change, as you will notice, I was merely remarking a fact at hand.

Secondly, my argument precisely regarded the spell changes, so the discussion whether and to how great of a length the server should be modified to resemble its PnP version is a moot point at this stage.

Its a very simple logic behind it all. If you opt to say... Address the changes behind the True Seeing spell, and lower the assigned spot and search bonuses to be more faithful to the original version of it (Which was one of the countless additions within the newest hak update), there truly is no coherent or significant reason to not alter something like Time Stop.
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McNastea

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2016, 08:25:04 PM »
Yes, I read thoroughly. If I misunderstood your meaning then my apologies but that's how it came across in your last sentence.

As for changing true seeing-there were other spells added that directly affected those skills, as well as the systems they interacted with. If true sight had remained the same while adding things like insight it would have shifted the balance between detection and stealth, which is a different matter entirely than whether a spell should be more akin to it's pnp version or whether a mage should be able to be offensive while using timestop.

That's just my take on it, I feel like we're talking past one another though. Suffice to say, I disagree that all spells should have to be more like their pnp version simply because any were. If you see it differently then that seems more a matter of opinion, as is mine, and it's pretty difficult to argue that one way or another ;)
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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2016, 08:38:07 PM »
The True Seeing was merely a sole example in the sea of others. The point I am trying to make, is that there are obviously willing forces within the development to modify and bring a more PnP-authentic spell array to us, and all I am remarking is that I personally do not perceive a sensible reason to not subject Time Stop to the same wave of changes.
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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2016, 09:21:29 PM »
I'm gonna be pretty honest here.

Even if you couldn't attack during Time Stop, what else can you do? Buff. That's right, you can buff! Buff and position again, chain another Time Stop along with that just in case. Continue buffing, and when you're finally ready, wait for it to expire and go guns blazing. Unless there's something to prevent that from occurring, or I read the proposed changes wrong, then there's really no difference.
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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2016, 09:51:39 PM »
Or we could just make it very hardcore and extremely balanced, and nerf everything so that magic doesn't exist, period. That my personal feeling about whittling away the fun of a game with nerfing...

Timestop isnt an "I win" button. It could be if you get it off first, I suppose, but, not every mage can or does.

Life isn't fair or balanced. Why should it be in a fantasy world?

Dumas

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2016, 09:56:34 PM »
Honestly, if you had my full opinion, I'd eliminate Time Stop. Now yes, I know, that's not in PnP... but I'm still of the personal opinion that controlling Time is an absolutely powerful concept, and is something that should be out of the hands of player characters. I really would say that it shouldn't even be a learnable spell. I think it's an ability that once achieved, is nearly the equivalent of godliness. I'm all for magic, I'm all for mages, but.. Time? Time stands still for no one! I wish it wasn't even possible in DnD.

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Re: Timestop, and how it works on PotM
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2016, 10:25:22 PM »
Coming from a mage main here,
I've wanted to see the spell nerfed to the ground for some time now.
With nearly anyone being capable of casting timestops (UMD is a staple skill), the argument that a high level, dedicated arcanist should be able to reap his reward doesn't make much sense.

Currently its just a very, very boring win it all card, that should either be nerfed (say, 1d2 rounds) or replaced entirely with something more fitting to Ravenloft.