Author Topic: Brainstorming about an item wear system  (Read 10252 times)

DrXavierTColtrane

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2016, 12:48:10 AM »
You manage to get a group together, and you've got a couple of frontliners.  However, after a short stint, you have to stop.  Why?

-The front players gear has reached -1 or even -2, or broken, if we're going off the above suggestion.  This means that the weapons no longer penetrate Damage Reduction or cannot damage or protect effectively.  They must turn around, the dungeon immediately must stop, and everyone misses out, because they no longer have front line fighters who can contribute.  If they choose not to, they will soon be in a similar position (or worse) when they start getting struck themselves.(snip)

-With no one in the party who can fix the equipment, what next?

(snip)

-Now, imagine you are a blacksmith, and you are a crafter, and suddenly... three whole quarters of the server (maybe more!) needs you to be on, and repairing, and fixing things, all the time.  Not every now and then but all the time.  -ALL- the time.  You are going to be chained to your anvil, and its by people who don't 'want' your help but actually 'have' to have it.

(snip)


If the above is trimmed down a bit, some of its contradictory assumptions become more visible. The problem with this example is it treats crafting as somehow different from all other skills that a PC can bring to a party.

In point of fact, just as having a rogue who can pick locks or a cleric who can heal, having crafting skills could become a huge boon to a party. It's not as though crafters can't also be rogues, clerics, or frontliners or whatever. All that time they spend at the forge does take away from the time they could be getting XP and developing these other skills as much, but being able to fix things "on the road" suddenly makes those invested skills valuable, too.

This could be another advantage PCs had over NPC repair shops. Just as we have a portable carpenter's kit, there could be a portable repair kit that smiths et al could have with them to fix items that become damaged during a dungeon crawl.

I don't see a significant difference between a HP-heavy fighter getting his or her body healed on the fly by a PC cleric and getting his/her armor fixed on the fly by a PC crafter. It's just a new facet to the game.

Regarding the argument of balance, anyone can "multiclass" into crafting, so I don't think it holds much water to say this imbalances the game. If I think the life of a crafter is the way to power build, I can always take it up -- even at 20th level. It'll be much easier to do so because of knowing where the best materials are and having the greatest ability to get them.

Regarding realism, that's a religious argument. Some players like realism a great deal, even if some find it anathema. But saying "Realism is just another name for tedious" is one's own dogma--not supportable fact.
For everything that's lovely is
But a brief, dreamy, kind delight.

Syl

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2592
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2016, 01:08:46 AM »
And if you wanted to make it more exact, just have only the following 3 damage types effect it..

Physical.. fire.. and acid.

I personally think the each one could be effected differently.. like.. If made of [ metal] Acid will degrade it more then fire but fire could possibly degrade leather faster then acid. and physical just damages both the same.

Only other way I could see. is make it have like a DC.. say If target gets critted on.. armor must make DC 15 fort. and the DC increases with every degrade until it is unuseable. ( not destroyed) I would suggest a lower DC BUT!.. any lower and you would need to roll a 1 to fail.. But.. since on here that has been changed... (-.-) can't have that. It isn't really a hassle to maintain your equipment. It is rather important to.

This would allow another money sink for those that carry Oh so much.. and open up more RP for crafters that are more dedicated to their craft. Think about it.. Even in MMOS.. gear has a durability. This makes you cautious on what you do and how much you have.
 
I see nothing wrong with it personally after some thinking.

Monica O'Sullivan: Master explorer
Tsubaki Yamamoto: Shadow Thief
Roesor Cryso: A slave for the Masters.
Sokol: An Unlikely Hero

Nemesis 24

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1406
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2016, 03:43:39 AM »
You manage to get a group together, and you've got a couple of frontliners.  However, after a short stint, you have to stop.  Why?

-The front players gear has reached -1 or even -2, or broken, if we're going off the above suggestion.  This means that the weapons no longer penetrate Damage Reduction or cannot damage or protect effectively.  They must turn around, the dungeon immediately must stop, and everyone misses out, because they no longer have front line fighters who can contribute.  If they choose not to, they will soon be in a similar position (or worse) when they start getting struck themselves.(snip)

-With no one in the party who can fix the equipment, what next?

(snip)

-Now, imagine you are a blacksmith, and you are a crafter, and suddenly... three whole quarters of the server (maybe more!) needs you to be on, and repairing, and fixing things, all the time.  Not every now and then but all the time.  -ALL- the time.  You are going to be chained to your anvil, and its by people who don't 'want' your help but actually 'have' to have it.

(snip)


If the above is trimmed down a bit, some of its contradictory assumptions become more visible. The problem with this example is it treats crafting as somehow different from all other skills that a PC can bring to a party.

In point of fact, just as having a rogue who can pick locks or a cleric who can heal, having crafting skills could become a huge boon to a party. It's not as though crafters can't also be rogues, clerics, or frontliners or whatever. All that time they spend at the forge does take away from the time they could be getting XP and developing these other skills as much, but being able to fix things "on the road" suddenly makes those invested skills valuable, too.

This could be another advantage PCs had over NPC repair shops. Just as we have a portable carpenter's kit, there could be a portable repair kit that smiths et al could have with them to fix items that become damaged during a dungeon crawl.

I don't see a significant difference between a HP-heavy fighter getting his or her body healed on the fly by a PC cleric and getting his/her armor fixed on the fly by a PC crafter. It's just a new facet to the game.

Regarding the argument of balance, anyone can "multiclass" into crafting, so I don't think it holds much water to say this imbalances the game. If I think the life of a crafter is the way to power build, I can always take it up -- even at 20th level. It'll be much easier to do so because of knowing where the best materials are and having the greatest ability to get them.

Regarding realism, that's a religious argument. Some players like realism a great deal, even if some find it anathema. But saying "Realism is just another name for tedious" is one's own dogma--not supportable fact.

I'm afraid I'll disagree comprehensively on the points you've made.  Firstly, I was postulating different scenarios.  Not a sequence of events, but three different scenarios of what will happen if repairs are necessary.  Either the group must depart and get repairs done at a key location where it is possible, or the group must depart and stop because they cannot get things repaired at all at the present time.  The contradiction you speak of was taking all the scenarios as a singular rather than as seperate.  If you cannot find a crafter to repair, the opportunities when they -do- become available mean that there is a likelihood of them being swamped with work.  However, this is also dependent on frequency of repairs being needed.

First point - repairs cannot be done on the fly.  They require, as mentioned above, leaving to go to a smithing location.  They require a forge and other such things to work the metal.  The above arguments are made on the basis it cannot be made portable.

Second, demand requires supply.  As such, this is the creation of a constant and inexhaustible stream of demand, however, it requires for many of us other players to submit supply.  A system that hobbles a character because another character is not present breeds resentment on both sides, and always has, as well intentioned as anyone might be.  This resentment is usually overcome but that does not mean it should be encouraged.

Third, in regards to realism - yes, I'll hold that it reaches a point of where it simply becomes busywork tedium, a false substance to inflate, creating work which is missing the point of the game entirely, which is enjoyment.  As it is, weapon and armour maintenance is a thing that can (and probably should) be roleplayed, but enforcing it is simply creating busywork for all involved, for no real advantage that makes it worthwhile.  In other words, tedium. 


Syl

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2592
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2016, 07:44:36 AM »
I fail to see how this would be tedious, in all the games that have amor or weapon conditions it's just a normal thing. yet.. when added into something where people can be lazy and not have to worry about such? that is the only time it becomes tedious to do. Look at Fallout 3, an RPG game where armor and weapons have condition and the better their conditions the better protection or damage they give.

and even still. think of it this way, the only ones REALLY threatened by this are those that put themselves in harms way.. IE front line people. these folks are the ones that are taking your beatings, blocking, and fighting. So they are the ones that need to maintain their armor shield and weapons more. after that, it is your flankers who will be repairing their weapons more than their armor. Casters? meh I they will have the lowest need to repair since they are in the back.

Also he said that repairs can either be done by a crafter... OR a smith/ leather worker. Depending on armor.  for a fee based on value of armor and weapon, Is this really.. THAT hard for people? we're talking what.... 6-10 dungeons and you MIGHT have to repair? Oh noooo.

It isn't really tedious at all just part of a game.

Monica O'Sullivan: Master explorer
Tsubaki Yamamoto: Shadow Thief
Roesor Cryso: A slave for the Masters.
Sokol: An Unlikely Hero

LeviShultz

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2016, 08:10:47 AM »
...
Third, in regards to realism - yes, I'll hold that it reaches a point of where it simply becomes busywork tedium, a false substance to inflate, creating work which is missing the point of the game entirely, which is enjoyment.  As it is, weapon and armour maintenance is a thing that can (and probably should) be roleplayed, but enforcing it is simply creating busywork for all involved, for no real advantage that makes it worthwhile.  In other words, tedium.

This essentially sums up my thoughts on the matter.

I really don't think I'll get any enjoyable or substantive RP out of it. It strikes me that from the the consumers standpoint this nothing but another iteration of merchant RP. While this opens up a whole other avenue for crafters, there are better ways to expand systems for player crafting that might make a more enjoyable and meaningful impact on our world.

"A no wisdom ranger is literally unwise."

DrXavierTColtrane

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2016, 10:16:03 AM »
I really don't think I'll get any enjoyable or substantive RP out of it. It strikes me that from the the consumers standpoint this nothing but another iteration of merchant RP. While this opens up a whole other avenue for crafters, there are better ways to expand systems for player crafting that might make a more enjoyable and meaningful impact on our world.

This is the brainstorming thread, so why not suggest these better ideas rather than give only a blanket criticism of those that have been offered?

The reason I support Exordium's idea is this: NWN is an off-the-shelf old game. Likewise, although I love the Gothic Horror setting, it is also an off-the-shelf world in many ways. There is nothing wrong with the tried and true as building a world like we enjoy at POTM from scratch would have been an even more overwhelming endeavor than I'm sure it already was.

All that said, NWN also comes with a built-in crafting system that was discarded in favor of the current one. So one of the unique, distinguishing, truly original features of POTM is its implementation of crafting. It seems to me to want to minimize its impact on gameplay, then, is to want to make the server more generic. To enhance it is to build on one of the server's strongest features (if not perhaps its uniquely strongest, outside at least of the player base, which developers have less ability to influence).

If a developer shows enthusiasm for enriching a major game feature and asks for one's thoughts about that, I think it preferable to say what you like about an idea, how it might be modified, etc., rather than dismissing it as "tedious" sight unseen. Coming up with good ideas is difficult; poking holes in them is easy.

Depending on how Exordium implements his idea, he can easily adjust it afterwards in response to constructive criticism (such as things wear out too often).
For everything that's lovely is
But a brief, dreamy, kind delight.

Aahz

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1127
  • People don't like to be meddled with.
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2016, 10:21:10 AM »
Item wear really seems like a mechanic more in line with a survival game than a RP based game to me.

Why so?

The mechanic doesn't seem qualitatively different from:

* Launchers using up ammunition

* Wands and staves exhausting charges

* Characters becoming exhausted

* Characters needing to eat

Etc., etc.

It demonstrably can increase RP through interaction between non-crafting and crafting characters. I can't think of a way in which it would lead to decreased RP.

Survival game mechanics center around finding and managing resources.  Specifically Eating, Exhaustion, and item Degradation.  Yeah it has good points but my point is that mechanics like these nudge move the game-play into something other than what the description says it is going for. Just because it can increase RP through interaction doesn't mean is a desirable way to do so.
 
"It never ceases to amaze me how bent out of shape adult people can get in a discussion on the best way to play make believe."

DrXavierTColtrane

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #57 on: June 12, 2016, 10:38:28 AM »
All that may be true, Aahz, but your original argument seemed to be that this would be some kind of major change on the axis, whereas it's at most a tweak (server already has the features you list as indicating survivalism, the new feature doesn't diminish RP but in your opinion may not lead to the best kind of RP).

For that matter, I don't see the two (survivalism and RP) as even existing on the same axis and in opposition. Cf. killing monsters and searching for treasure. Are those survivalist activities or RP opportunities? Or both?
For everything that's lovely is
But a brief, dreamy, kind delight.

Exordium

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 1806
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #58 on: June 12, 2016, 11:42:30 AM »
Lets look at it.  You manage to get a group together, and you've got a couple of frontliners.  However, after a short stint, you have to stop.  Why?

In the way I've thought of the system, it'd be unlikely that after putting up a group, you'd have to stop your dungeoning due to an item breakage.

It would take a long time for an item to break and there would be ample time to have it fixed before it breaks. For example, if there were 100 durability points and you lost about 1.5 per day through mediocre item use, you could start looking to get it fixed when you're at say 20/100 durability points and still take a few dungeons before it gets worn out.

There may be some technical problems with decreasing AB in fact. It might be that any higher AB bonus overrides an AB decrease on an item. So maybe we'd lower damage by say, -2. Your damage reduction penetration wouldn't be affected and therefore, you'd not wind up to a situation where you can not harm your enemies anymore due to an item wearing out.

Mind you, all the details I'm giving are purely hypothetical and just some ideas about how the potential annoyance factor could be minimized. :)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 11:49:59 AM by Exordium »

Aahz

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1127
  • People don't like to be meddled with.
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #59 on: June 12, 2016, 02:49:15 PM »
All that may be true, Aahz, but your original argument seemed to be that this would be some kind of major change on the axis, whereas it's at most a tweak (server already has the features you list as indicating survivalism, the new feature doesn't diminish RP but in your opinion may not lead to the best kind of RP).

For that matter, I don't see the two (survivalism and RP) as even existing on the same axis and in opposition. Cf. killing monsters and searching for treasure. Are those survivalist activities or RP opportunities? Or both?

Nope. That was all my point was. In itself it is not a major change on the axis but it does build with each change.  The more you go down the road the more the gameplay becomes "Don't Starve" or "zombie survival" with RP added on. If that is the game the devs want fine but it is something to be aware of. Also, what happens if players cannot people with the craft skills they need? Server population and timezone population are hardly things you can rely on. 

I do admit that I have a negative gut reaction every time something like this comes up. My first thought is always "Are players really refusing to interact with each other to the point where a new game mechanic is needed to 'encourage' Role Play?". My second thought "what will the unintended effects of this be"
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 12:41:23 AM by Aahz »
"It never ceases to amaze me how bent out of shape adult people can get in a discussion on the best way to play make believe."

Jeebs

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 952
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2016, 03:12:48 PM »
Lets look at it.  You manage to get a group together, and you've got a couple of frontliners.  However, after a short stint, you have to stop.  Why?

In the way I've thought of the system, it'd be unlikely that after putting up a group, you'd have to stop your dungeoning due to an item breakage.

It could still happen, but in this case, it would be due to player error... no different than forgetting to buy your potion in Tser Pool and the rest of your party has to wait for you to run back and get one. Personally, I like the idea (or any idea that adds some realism to the game). I don't get why there's outcry over this... virtually every MMORPG out there has item-wear, so to say that this is pushing the server into a survival game instead of a role-playing game is false to me.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 09:19:11 PM by Serillian »

Miuo

  • Discord: Miuo
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2131
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2016, 06:43:40 PM »
That was the point i made, its a step towards MMO style play. Where its more about mechanics, and less to do with rp. It may add a sense of "realism", but its one thats forced on you to participate in. Unlike where you can basically ignore actually eating for as long as you want with no side affects. There are degrees of realism in the game that are scaled to various ends of the spectrum to optimize time vs enjoyment of the game.

Given the limited play times many have, the age of the game and the unlikely hood there is gonna be some huge influx to the game. I dont think this is worth the time it would take to make, or the time this will require of players to invest in this. Id rather see more familiar/companion options. Better perfecting of spells like planar ally that's skewed completely in favor of good aligned characters. And the further addition and variant of spells, or more ravenlofty spells like summon lycanthrope or Metamorphose Liquids are just some ideas. things that add to the atmosphere and rp of the setting. Rather then making players busy them selves with mechanics and constant watching of your items durability.

dark_majico

  • Guest
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #62 on: June 13, 2016, 05:00:56 AM »
My only concern is that if people know they are going to need a smith/leatherworker etc, they may not want to have to rely on others for their skills and take them up themselves. This is fine up to a point, but if most people become crafters then their skills will end up being less in demand, not more.

Ever tried? :) You are an expert player and seem to know not a lot about the difficulty of crafting :)

I am aware of the dedication needed to master a skill, (one of my characters is doing all but two of the crafts but that may change, I also had a skilled smith) but all I am saying is that if a system is introduced whereby armour and weapon upkeep becomes important, more people will take up the crafts.

I'm with emptyanima on this one, firstly I think all this will do is turn almost everyone who possibly can, into a smithy and a leather worker gradually. I don't think our player base is large enough for this kind of economy to work and thrive as it should.

Secondly if this goes wrong it could go really wrong, it could suck a lot of fun out of the game, or cause all sorts of unforeseen problems, for what's being proposed I don't really think it's worth the risk. I'v seen item degradation along side spell components totally obliterate a modules play ability, spell components usually seems like a good idea but both ideas really need to be implimented into a game right from the start by the game developers. Seeing as we are living with the consequences of no gamespy, and the ever increasing cost of hosting PotM, PotM's future should never be assumed to be totally without risk. Sorry Exordium, I know you mean well but this makes me too nervous.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 05:03:38 AM by dark_majico »

booksarefun666

  • Guest
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2016, 01:09:49 AM »
Alternatively, you could just implement it anyway and see if it ends POTM forever.  It's not surprising the players wouldn't want to voluntarily hobble themselves and in fact, the original supporters in the first few posts were crafters themselves and are probably enthused like I am over the roleplay (read: money)  it can make. I doubt we'll see a massive increase of smiths if it's really as slow degrading as it is intended and not troublesome enough to actually take up smithing because the actual professions themselves are an ultimate test of patience.

This is akin to asking a person if they want to be taxed more. Most people will say no.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 01:38:54 AM by PmYourTarrasques »

DrXavierTColtrane

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2016, 09:12:04 AM »
On the one hand we have those opposing this saying smiths will be over-whelmed by so much demand for their services; on the other we have the argument that everyone will take up smithing so it will no longer be lucrative.  Adam Smith, OTOH, says that supply and demand will find a price equilibrium: cars need oil changes, oil changes cost money and are fairly easy to do; yet not everyone wants to do it themselves.

Smithing has higher barriers to entry than does grease monkeying.

Taxes are a real-world comparison, but the one I would use is software development. IRL, once someone owns PhotoShop, he or she owns PhotoShop. How does Adobe make more money off its product? Well, you can fix bugs or you can enhance features (the latter eventually becoming unneeded bloat).

If it were possible to keep enhancing gear, then PCs would eventually have to dump their old stuff to get the bright, new shiny things. Players wouldn't like that their old stuff had become obsolete, but they would be placated by having new bells and whistles.  This would, however, also lead to power creep on the server--an undesirable side effect.

What the maintenance implementation does is mimic Adobe's move to Creative Cloud licensing instead. Do customers like it? No, but it is a model in which Adobe can continue to be profitable.

Likewise, the only crafting I currently think is profitable is for consumables like potions, varnishes, and missiles--which is a shame for the reason I listed above that crafting is one of the strong, unique features of this server. Whereas one can argue religiously about whether realism equals tedium, it seems to me objectively true that static is more tedious than is dynamic. IMO a system in which every character who wants it can have a lifetime best-of-breed suit of armor after about 6 to 8 sewer bounties will be more static than a system in which the character must periodically interact with another character to get said armor fixed.

No one can accurately predict how onerous this will be without knowing its frequency. Currently, one must get new gear (presumably) whenever creating a new character. Would the new system make repair necessary once a year? That hardly seems a hardship. Every day? Does anyone favor that? Going back to the oil change example, if your car needed oil every day, you would get a different car (i.e., use loot-drop armor rather than crafted).

Adjusting the frequency is easy enough rather than acting like this is some kind of binary doomsday button.

Yet another long-desired positive side effect of such a change that might result: moving high-levels out of the Outskirts. Most really good crafters are (I think) high levels. Yet the only viable place to ply their trade is where the new characters are likely to arrive.

If gear needed maintenance, however, then being a crafter elsewhere might be sustainable.

As far as my personal dog in this fight, I really have none. My reasons for supporting it I've already stated above and they have nothing to do with anything likely to benefit my character (other than adding texture to the world he inhabits).
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 09:20:01 AM by Nicholas Kronos »
For everything that's lovely is
But a brief, dreamy, kind delight.

blur927

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 67
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #65 on: June 15, 2016, 01:24:45 PM »
I think I'd rather have crafters with the ability to buff items, rather than require maintenance on gear. Like giving blacksmith's the ability to sharpen / embludgeon(?) a weapon and give it +1  damage for a few days. I think that would be a fun addition where having to maintain your gear could get tedious if it's not tuned just right.

Skullmonkey

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #66 on: June 15, 2016, 04:25:08 PM »
I think I'd rather have crafters with the ability to buff items, rather than require maintenance on gear. Like giving blacksmith's the ability to sharpen / embludgeon(?) a weapon and give it +1  damage for a few days. I think that would be a fun addition where having to maintain your gear could get tedious if it's not tuned just right.

It's a start...at least nobody would get angry at this :)

Jeebs

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 952
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2016, 05:28:04 PM »
I think I'd rather have crafters with the ability to buff items, rather than require maintenance on gear. Like giving blacksmith's the ability to sharpen / embludgeon(?) a weapon and give it +1  damage for a few days. I think that would be a fun addition where having to maintain your gear could get tedious if it's not tuned just right.

There's already spells and items that do this, for all intents and purposes. Granted the duration isn't as long, but since players can rest every three hours or so, it's pretty much the same thing, no? It's not that I don't like the idea, I just don't see a high incentive for devs to add in another way to do something that is already available in the game. I think so long as the DC to repair an item is comparable to the DC required to make it, the temptation to learn every craft to be self-sufficient will be mitigated.

If the player-base is really against item-wear, then perhaps instead you could add in master crafting tools that double the DC of the item you're making, but creates a Masterwork item with either slightly enhanced stats or an additional property or two. Just a thought, but I think that's probably easier to work out than something that has a time-limit and likely wouldn't stack with similar spells. It occurs to me that this wouldn't really work for herbalism and alchemy though.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 05:35:33 PM by Serillian »

Skullmonkey

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #68 on: June 15, 2016, 06:28:00 PM »
I think I'd rather have crafters with the ability to buff items, rather than require maintenance on gear. Like giving blacksmith's the ability to sharpen / embludgeon(?) a weapon and give it +1  damage for a few days. I think that would be a fun addition where having to maintain your gear could get tedious if it's not tuned just right.

There's already spells and items that do this, for all intents and purposes. Granted the duration isn't as long, but since players can rest every three hours or so, it's pretty much the same thing, no? It's not that I don't like the idea, I just don't see a high incentive for devs to add in another way to do something that is already available in the game. I think so long as the DC to repair an item is comparable to the DC required to make it, the temptation to learn every craft to be self-sufficient will be mitigated.

If the player-base is really against item-wear, then perhaps instead you could add in master crafting tools that double the DC of the item you're making, but creates a Masterwork item with either slightly enhanced stats or an additional property or two. Just a thought, but I think that's probably easier to work out than something that has a time-limit and likely wouldn't stack with similar spells. It occurs to me that this wouldn't really work for herbalism and alchemy though.

As I proposed earlier, we could make a system that allows people to make master quality crafts by surpassing the DC required to make the item by at least 20. The master crafted item doesn't need to have OP stats, but it could be made so that it weights lesser, or adds a +1 to damage....or perhaps it just says that on the name; it would give some recognition to those who have spent alot of time in crafts, reaching levels like 50 or 60.

Jeebs

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 952
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #69 on: June 15, 2016, 07:31:06 PM »
Oh, that was suggested already? My bad, this thread's been going on for a bit now and I must have missed that.

Skullmonkey

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #70 on: June 15, 2016, 07:36:22 PM »
Oh, that was suggested already? My bad, this thread's been going on for a bit now and I must have missed that.

Well, actually I suggested it in the system wishlist so you are not to be blamed  :)

DrXavierTColtrane

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Brainstorming about an item wear system
« Reply #71 on: June 27, 2016, 01:33:20 PM »
Had an idea...

Keep existing gear the way it is, which removes the argument that players lose something by implementing item degradation.

Add a new category of crafting recipes named something like this:

Golem Leather
Golem Plate
Golem Gloves

etc. Each of these items can be crafted like a normal recipe except if a golem crafting component is added, the item has the following qualities:

* It provides the wearer with immunity to criticals.
* After absorbing X number of criticals, the item no longer grants this immunity. Nor can it reacquire the immunity because this magical property can only be added during item creation.
* The recipe's DC increases by some value Y commensurate with this added quality.
* X is some function of the skill level of the crafter. For example, it could be that golem plate / golem leather crafted by a 40th level smith / leather worker can absorb 80 criticals before losing this ability. After play-testing, X can be adjusted for game balance.
--

Because the item doesn't become useless but loses only this added benefit, it also means characters are no worse off if it happens during the middle of an adventure than if they were using a standard item. The golem component restricts the quantity of such items, so although crafters will have something new they can do, they shouldn't be over-whelmed with requests either.

As usual, I don't know the programming logistics of this idea :)
For everything that's lovely is
But a brief, dreamy, kind delight.