Author Topic: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.  (Read 2681 times)

Gavin Mace

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Re: Gothic Earth Background
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2016, 09:35:13 PM »
Bumping this for the NCE, since the ruling does tend to get forgotten or overlooked!


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BraveSirRobin

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2016, 03:12:00 AM »
Out of curiosity, let's assume that our character just doesn't quite break the border on the language barrier, you make a new dude, whatever. Let's say he's from Italy, Germany, France, Mudda Rusha, you get the idea.

Now, let's assume he's German.

Ye?

And he meets a Falkovnian. Now, of course, Falkovnian is not-German for Core people, but everyone will go, "Ja, bitte," if they say, "Yes, please," or... "Scheiße!" for their more coarse language. Let's say you're playing this German, and of course, his native tongue gets peppered in with, or completely is used in lieu of common.

And you walk down the road, you're interacting with someone, and a Falkovnian player walks up.


"Hallo! Wie geht's dir?" If he's super-dedicated. There's immediately an incredibly awkward moment of either, "Yes, we're using the same Real-Life language, but mine actually represents my fake language that's using German as it's linguistic representative."

It's not incredibly conducive. Similarly, let's just say we play an old-school Russian or Romanian. Everyone's going to think you're a local at a glance, even if you're an Outlander. Seems like it'd lead to a lot of awkward... "[Tell] I'm actually a German/Russian/Romanian, from GE. Not a local. You don't know what he's saying."

What is the official ruling on how to make this less complicated? Because theoretically, they're not even the same language. Unless somehow they have similar roots and it's ruled that they can roughly understand each other.

Gavin Mace

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2016, 05:56:09 AM »
Just confirm by sending a tell.

I tend to speak entirely in language tags if using a GE language that has a Ravenloft parallel to avoid confusion, and include in an emote that the character is speaking in a foreign tongue from beyond the Core if I wish to say something outside of the tags.
It's not usually a problem, though, as I stick to GE characters from unusual places.

Consider putting a note in your character's biography in-game, too.


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BraveSirRobin

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2016, 11:12:02 PM »
I sort've assumed as much. I was just pointing out the silliness.

Gavin Mace

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2017, 05:30:38 AM »
Bumping.

The addition of the warning is still needed.


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Jackdaw

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2017, 10:28:19 AM »
If GE characters cannot speak common, would the common tongue be uncommon to natives of the core in Ravenloft? I did some searching, and came up with this:

http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Common_(Language)

"Common is an almost universal language spoken on many outlander worlds. The natives of the Land of Mists do not enjoy such a boon; instead a variety of domain-specific tongues are spoken." It's cited as canon. I can't find the particular "source", as I don't have any sourcebooks on hand.

Can any of the DMs explain this? Would it be such a case to say that common was brought from Outlander worlds? Would it be common to say that most natives would have to learn that also.

Looking for some clarification.

Meanwhile, RPing my character learning "words good"...


Arawn

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2017, 11:03:47 AM »
There is a provided optional variant to the rules for the Ravenloft Campaign Setting that state a DM may choose to have Common exist as the lingua franca of the Demiplane. We choose to use that variant.
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Jackdaw

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2017, 12:00:10 PM »
Thanks for the answer, I wasn't sure. Glad to know that option is available. It solves a lot of problems. Perhaps a server character creation warning for the characters unable to speak common is a good option for those starting under Gothic Earth

EO

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2017, 12:03:25 PM »
I'll add a mention about that in the Character Creation conversation.

Jackdaw

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2017, 12:07:38 PM »
Thank you EO.

dark_majico

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2017, 11:21:07 AM »
This just seems to me like another unnecessary barrier being put in the way of people interacting with one another.
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Constance Hollows

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2017, 11:44:21 AM »
This just seems to me like another unnecessary barrier being put in the way of people interacting with one another.

By that token, so is caliban OCR. It's part of the setting, and you can choose to play these characters or not; no one is forcing you. If you're interested in that kind of roleplay it's there; if not, don't do it.
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dark_majico

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2017, 04:34:20 AM »
This just seems to me like another unnecessary barrier being put in the way of people interacting with one another.

By that token, so is caliban OCR. It's part of the setting, and you can choose to play these characters or not; no one is forcing you. If you're interested in that kind of roleplay it's there; if not, don't do it.

Not really, this is totally different. Your asking people to pretend their own character can't understand what is the closest thing you can possibly get to being english. The same should go for native Ravenloft characters, but that has been side stepped for convenience, but Gothic on the other hand, no such luck. OK I understand technically its cannon and it's part of the setting, and its great that no one is forcing anyone to play this out, but you can't say that this isn't a major obstacle.
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urathraviel

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2017, 05:58:44 AM »
Common has nothing to do with being english actually.  From the Faerun varient:
Quote
Common was little more than a trade language; that is, it was not useful for complicated topics. It was simple and not very expressive as a language....
Common developed directly from Thorass, or "Old Common", which was itself a pidgin variant of the Jhaamdathan language ("Old Chondathan") and Alzhedo.

Greyhawk has it listed as this:
Quote
Common is a hybrid language, a combination of the dialect of Old Oeridian spoken in the Great Kingdom and Ancient Baklunish. It is the trade tongue of the Flanaess.

Obviously this differs slightly between settings but unless i am mistaken the general principal is the same. Common, or the trade tongue. is a hodgepodge of usefull words from multiple roots that can be used to express simpmle ideas like directions, trade, requests.

In any case as i remember it Gothic earth specificly states there is no common tongue, where ravenloft rules allow for the addition of one at the DM's discretion.


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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2017, 11:01:31 AM »
It's as urathvariel says. Ravenloft has a provided option in the campaign setting; GE specifically does not have Common. In any case, that's how it is and we have no intention of changing it.
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Daboomer

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2017, 03:31:49 PM »
It gets a little tricky playing a GE character but ove went through at least two weeks of rp before understanding simple things, about 2 months more before speaking somewhat and half a year before being fluent. I did have a month or so of a break where i did not play him which made it hard for me to say where he went from just understanding somewhat and understanding well. The hardest part with it was not learning commong or not understanding. That was easy to rp. The hard part was how to go from somewhat speaking a language to being "fluent".
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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2017, 03:44:51 PM »
Asmund refuses to speak in his native tongue (partly because his 10 in int won't allow it). None the less, it's been a long road for both him and Hjorta to master common. It's a great experience to rp learning common. I see no issue having to do it.
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dark_majico

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2017, 06:12:41 AM »
Common has nothing to do with being english actually.  From the Faerun varient:
Quote
Common was little more than a trade language; that is, it was not useful for complicated topics. It was simple and not very expressive as a language....
Common developed directly from Thorass, or "Old Common", which was itself a pidgin variant of the Jhaamdathan language ("Old Chondathan") and Alzhedo.

Greyhawk has it listed as this:
Quote
Common is a hybrid language, a combination of the dialect of Old Oeridian spoken in the Great Kingdom and Ancient Baklunish. It is the trade tongue of the Flanaess.

Obviously this differs slightly between settings but unless i am mistaken the general principal is the same. Common, or the trade tongue. is a hodgepodge of usefull words from multiple roots that can be used to express simpmle ideas like directions, trade, requests.

In any case as i remember it Gothic earth specificly states there is no common tongue, where ravenloft rules allow for the addition of one at the DM's discretion.

In reality common has everything to do with being english, because that's how its actually spoken. Did you understand what I was trying to say?
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Constance Hollows

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2017, 06:35:53 AM »
Yes, they did understand.  Simply put, what we see on the screen and what is 'said', if it was actual reality is not what would be 'heard'.  Common is not conventional real world 'English'.  It is merely typed as such out convenience.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 06:42:03 AM by Nemesis 24 »

urathraviel

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2017, 02:14:28 PM »
Yes, they did understand.  Simply put, what we see on the screen and what is 'said', if it was actual reality is not what would be 'heard'.  Common is not conventional real world 'English'.  It is merely typed as such out convenience.

This is it exactly. if we were a predominatly spanish speaking server, for example. That wouldnt make common akin to spanish.

Jeebs

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Re: Gothic Earth Background: CANNOT SPEAK COMMON.
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2017, 12:45:07 AM »
Right. Common isn't English. Balok isn't Romanian. Mordentish isn't French. None of the languages of Ravenloft, though inspired by various real-world analogues are actually those languages. Which means if you're from GE and you're French, you still can't understand a Mordentish speaker. I know it can be confusing, but sadly that's just the way it is. If you really want to play a character from GE and skip the whole language barrier thing, couldn't you just start your character off knowing one and claim you've been in the Core for a year or whatever amount of time is logical for you to learn a new language?