Author Topic: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.  (Read 63966 times)

Soren / Zarathustra217

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This will be in place by next update as experiment.

In effect, it makes the spells raise dead and resurrection have spell ingredient requirements. This only applies to when you have to cast the spell yourself, and not when having an NPC do it for you or using a scroll.

The ingredient requirements are diamonds of the worth equal to what it would cost for a NPC to raise the corpse, e.g. 100gp/level of target for raise dead and 500gp/level of target for resurrection. You need to place diamonds worth this value or above next to the corpse when attempting to raise it. This somewhat brings it in line with DnD rules (although more lenient).

Diamonds will be sold at the Ezrite temple in Vallaki, the mist camp trader and the jeweler in Dementlieu. Diamonds acquired through loot are also valid.

We of course realise that this will to some be controversial. The reasoning we still want to try this out is due to certain imbalances and unfortunate effects caused by the current system. First of all, it gives high level clerics and near allies of them a very significant advantage over those who don't have close ties to a high level cleric - most of those being low level characters. It also eliminates the gold drain that raising and resurrection would otherwise constitute to these high levels, perhaps when it is most relevant - in terms of generating a meaningful economy. Lastly, it should also give high level clerics some respite in being called upon OOCly to raise and resurrect people.

Of course, one could then object - what is the advantage then of being able to cast the spell? Wouldn't it loose it's point? We don't readily see this as the consequence. The cleric remains the clear advantage of portability. Having a cleric along with you to revive the dead is still very relevant, as it can be done more or less on spot.

We hope you will join in experimenting with this change with an open mind and share your thoughts and input in a constructive manner.

Thank you...  :cookie:

HellsPanda

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2011, 05:04:06 AM »
what about scrolls and snowglobes, wil they also need to pay the diamond cost?

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2011, 05:19:14 AM »
what about scrolls and snowglobes, wil they also need to pay the diamond cost?

In effect, it makes the spells raise dead and resurrection have spell ingredient requirements. This only applies to when you have to cast the spell yourself, and not when having an NPC do it for you or using a scroll.

Snowglobes will work without the need for ingredients too.

HellsPanda

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2011, 05:20:38 AM »
Well see, reading everything is overrated....

But then I am all for it

Norture

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2011, 05:25:19 AM »
Quote from: Dev team
So the players want CHALLENGE?! By Hagalaz's icy beard, they shall know challenge! Lo! With a sweep of my battleaxe, permadeaths are handed, and the rich are punished for their greed! Beg for our punishment, mortals, and we shall happily oblige.
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(This might be a good sign that I need to go to bed)

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2011, 05:29:58 AM »
Oh, but it's true!

mayvind

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2011, 05:50:39 AM »
ressurection scroll is cheap ... and portable and if not mistaking is certain faction ( Red Vardo ) have monopol on this one. Where is balance in that ? it also making ressurection spell as be portable argument moot.

The spell just become useless and expensive. Also for a server that claim not to punish the soloer have become just that and it can be also consider insane if a party got wiped specially high level one. This can become tedious work work work .... time time time ... less less less fun. But then it only experiment right ?

P.S just a reminder we have impaired corpse and undead upon failed cast in place which mean, corpse is easy impaired .. ++++ in dungeons with sink hole of evil percent corpse come back as undead is higher +++ caster have DP ++++ a failed ressurection spell cast on level 20 which cost 10k ... can be consider .... major setback. Rich tight friend circle still provide means to aid theirs friend but this will hurt new comer even more since it will creat hesitation among players to lose theirs time and coins for someone they don't know or eventualy care. As for new comer stay dead in dungeons for few hours will eventually become tedious and drift away.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 06:25:56 AM by mayvind »

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2011, 06:46:41 AM »
ressurection scroll is cheap ... and portable and if not mistaking is certain faction ( Red Vardo ) have monopol on this one. Where is balance in that ? it also making ressurection spell as be portable argument moot.

The spell just become useless and expensive. Also for a server that claim not to punish the soloer have become just that and it can be also consider insane if a party got wiped specially high level one. This can become tedious work work work .... time time time ... less less less fun. But then it only experiment right ?

P.S just a reminder we have impaired corpse and undead upon failed cast in place which mean, corpse is easy impaired .. ++++ in dungeons with sink hole of evil percent corpse come back as undead is higher +++ caster have DP ++++ a failed ressurection spell cast on level 20 which cost 10k ... can be consider .... major setback. Rich tight friend circle still provide means to aid theirs friend but this will hurt new comer even more since it will creat hesitation among players to lose theirs time and coins for someone they don't know or eventualy care. As for new comer stay dead in dungeons for few hours will eventually become tedious and drift away.

Scrolls have been removed from stores by the introduction of this change.

I don't see any reason to assume new comers would be at all be affected by this change. If anyone, they will be the least affected.

herkles

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2011, 08:01:09 AM »
this will be intresting, though it would make doing risks a bit well riskier. Though I would mention that the diamonds in vallaki should be sold somewhere else, if only because the ezrite store is scripted for only ezrites(and faction friends) so maybe a diffrent store?  But as a non-adventure I am curious how other people see this, I can see that some would absolutely detest the idea but I am going to wait and see.


respawnaholic

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2011, 09:02:13 AM »
The main people it will affect are low levels. The high levels can all already afford to run around with a snowglobe or two stashed in their inventory. What Im worried about is this may just reinforce a current trend where its becomming more common to just loot a fallen corpse rather than be bothered with hauling it all the way back to a temple capable of raising it. Low levels not only have a more difficult time affording things like snow globes, they may not in many cases even know such things exist. As it is the ammount of muling and "gift giving" on the server has already reached absurd proportions. I'm just worried this is going to encourage more of the same.

Look I'm all for spell components...totally, but I'd rather see it as something a little more generic, cheaper and totally across the board. For one thing the economy is totally wonky because pretty much any character capable of casting a few low level buffs can pretty much ignore 3/4th of what makes a typical dungeon dangerous. These are the people out ninja looting and soloing dungeons constantly (of which I have to confess to being guilty of myself) because they can turn a pure profit. These people are also not going to have any problem affording things like diamonds, and snowglobes.

The death system on the server is already pretty harsh, and there seems to be a reoccuring trend on HCR servers where people begin to inevitibly confuse immersion with just plain masochism. (Witness the fatigue system.) I really, really like the idea of spell components, but singling out raise dead and ressurection as needing special attention with very expensive rare diamons just worries me. Clerics are already the best soloists in the game, and i can see this new rule actually encouraging that further. Players that can afford snowglobes can easily take steps to insure themselves further, and they will within a day or so of this rule being implemented.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 09:07:54 AM by respawnaholic »

HellsPanda

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2011, 09:09:17 AM »
1st We don't know if they are putting in various priced diamonds yet. I would guess there will be a selection of diamonds to buy for this system.

2nd It won't affect lowbies, since the NPCs won't change much, as the primary way of raising/ressurecting lowbies is and always has been is Liz.

3rd It forces Clerics to actually have to use coins, instead of just using it on random things they dont really need.

4th it will allow us to formulate a joint ritualistic style as we will need to put out atleast 1 diamond to raise a body, Wee for RP!!!.

5th It will make the difference between good and evil clerics more profound, as a truly good cleric would me more inclined to not charge a price, while the Evil will probably charge an exorbiant cost

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2011, 10:25:05 AM »
Then the other spells should have components too, right?

To what I can see, I dislike it.

1) Only ressurrection and raise dead will be nerfed, not all the other spells.
2) We already have an irritating risk of ressurrecting people as zombies.
3) You're simply taking out the advantage of having a cleric to ressurrect people: it's easier to just bring the body to the temple.

And 4) I'll not bother anymore in ressurrecting people who have no money to pay for the ressurrection.
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Aahz

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2011, 10:35:52 AM »
And the server finally goes completely off the rails  :(
"It never ceases to amaze me how bent out of shape adult people can get in a discussion on the best way to play make believe."

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2011, 11:01:41 AM »
And the server finally goes completely off the rails  :(

Why don't you just stay on track then and get lost?

Badelaire

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2011, 11:11:11 AM »
This system is in place on another server I sometimes play on now and then (City of Arabel) and it seems to work alright for them, why the doomsaying? I honestly don't know why we need to be spoon fed on a gothic horror server, it's supposed to be cruel and unforgiving.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 11:13:17 AM by Badelaire »

Darktide18

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2011, 11:40:04 AM »
And the server finally goes completely off the rails  :(

Why don't you just stay on track then and get lost?

Not to be harsh but he is right.  No one is forcing anyone to play on this server.  If we cant be productive on our feedback and just throw out negatism there are other servers. 

Threefold

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2011, 11:53:27 AM »
I approve! :D

Now perhaps Clerics will think twice about raising random stranger who could be completely against their religious beliefs.

Dashru

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2011, 12:00:27 PM »
I'm all for this, if greater risk means equally great rewards?  Maybe increase the loot tables on very risky dungeons that often warrant deaths?
"...I was griefing a social server the other day, and noticed that they had some very explicit emotes that forced two characters to perform a very 'cooperative' emote. Naturally i spammed it on player corpses..." -- Papa Zarus

Threefold

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2011, 12:07:30 PM »
Risk has always equalled more reward, in my experience.

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2011, 12:14:09 PM »
I love this idea, simply because

A) It will lead to more RP realism of a Cleric who serves a specific god/goddess to consider who they should raise.
B) It makes raise dead and ressurection have more meaning than just being tossed out like candy.

I am curious however if there will be different priced diamonds added to store though, since currently I think the ones sold are 5k? So, that can get pretty expensive if the corpse is damaged and comes back undead. 10k for a raise? Yikes! Lulz.

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Iconoclast

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2011, 12:16:58 PM »


I assume it is designed so that npc raises and res is more expensive than a pc doing it.

I'm curious to see how this will play out.  Will post feedback after some experience with it. 


herkles

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2011, 12:17:53 PM »
question is there any diffrence between using a diamond and a small diamond?


Threefold

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2011, 12:40:07 PM »
I personally think this system could be better served by simply removing coin from inventories. Diamonds seem an akward thing to use, unless they are sold for 100gp (since all raises are increments of 100). After all, spending a 1000gp diamond to raise a level 3 would be extremely wasteful.

Metal_ash

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2011, 12:46:26 PM »
I not see any trouble in this new system at all really.
It only effects Clerics really and if they not want to spend money on diamonds to raise/resurrect people they sure not be forced to do so. And if they do want to raise/resurrect someone and not have diamonds on them...well then they can always raise people as all others do. Drag them to a church, raise/resurrection scrolls or a mist globe.
Also if a group are to travel to a dangerous place and do have a cleric with them, maybe it be smart to go together and buy some diamonds for that cleric so he can at least raise/resurrect someone that might fall in that dungeon.

I do know there will be at least one more place that will sell diamonds in the future to and diamonds can also be found in loot.

I fail to see why this would be such a big thing as it not really change much more then a cleric have to be more selective with casting raise.
The good thing i see in this is that people in a dangerous place maybe be more carefull even if they do have a cleric with them as they can just drop dead so many times now before the cleric runs out of diamonds.

So before shout out that it will be the end of the server and the fun to play here maybe we all should think it through both one and two times more and also TEST and TRY it out for a while :shock:
//Cheers!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 12:58:29 PM by Metal_ash »

Rex

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Re: Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2011, 12:50:37 PM »
Sounds like another great step in the right direction to me.  But then I like it tough anyway.  :D

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