Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist

Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: EO on December 21, 2017, 11:28:07 PM

Title: New Prestige Classes
Post by: EO on December 21, 2017, 11:28:07 PM: Crypt Raider
Spoiler: show
Many cultures have no title that carries greater shame, or summons up deeper revilement than the grave robber. The crypt raider, however, brushes aside such concerns with the nonchalance gained from years of experience. Whether for the sake of knowledge, righteousness, or old-fashioned avarice, the crypt raider has dedicated his life to breaching the resting places of the dead. Many crypt raiders are indeed motivated by greed; the riches of the past can be a tempting hoard no matter what lethal traps and horrors may guard them. But many crypt raiders hunger just as deeply to destroy the living dead that inevitably guard such caches, and their plunder is merely a fringe benefit. Still other crypt raiders are genuine idealists and academics, devoting themselves to bringing the past into the light of day, so that others might benefit from the lessons and the mistakes of those that have gone before.

Hit Die: d6.

Requirements:
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Feats: Back to the Wall, Courage
Skills: Disable Trap 8 ranks, Lore 4 ranks, Search 8 ranks.

Class Skills:
Appraise, Concentration, Disable Trap, Hide, Listen, Lore, Move Silently, Open Lock, Parry, Search, Spellcraft, Spot, Tumble, Use, Magic Device.
Skill Points at Each Level: 8 + Int modifier

Class Features:
Base Attack Bonus: +3/4 Levels
Saving Throws: Fortitude/Reflex

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A crypt raider gains proficiency in the whip.
Grave Robber: The penalty to the crypt raider's stealth when opening locks, opening or closing doors or containers, or picking up items is lowered by 25%. At level 4 the penalty is lowered by 50%, level 7 by 75% and at level 10 the crypt raider no longer incurs a penalty to stealth when doing any of these actions.
Sepulchral Savvy: At 1st level, a crypt raider receives a +1 bonus to saving throws against traps and a +1 bonus to Search, Disable Trap and Open Lock checks in crypts and ruins. These bonuses increase by +1 every other crypt raider level thereafter.
Slippery Soul: At 2nd level, any curse checks against a crypt raider receive a -2 penalty. At 2nd level, a crypt raider also receives a +2 luck bonus to her Will save against the spell bestow curse. This bonus increases to +4 at 6th level and +6 at 10th level.
Witness to Horror: At 2nd level, a crypt raider receives a +1 bonus to Fear saving throws. This bonus rises to +2 at 5th level and +3 at 8th level. At level 10, the crypt raider becomes immune to the magical fear aura of undead.
Bonus Feats: At 4th, 7th and 10th level, the crypt raider gains a bonus feat.

People’s Champion (max level = 5)
Spoiler: show
In every land, there are nobles who misuse their positions of privilege. The people’s champion rises to the defense of commoners who suffer under the excesses of abusive nobles and their hirelings. The champion has no desire to overthrow the existing social order, but is instead motivated by a desire to see that justice is done within its confines.

Characters belonging to this class are invariably former clergy or church warriors who turned their backs on the organized churches of Ezra or the Lawgiver. This was due to what they perceived as corruption, abuse of authority for personal gain of the clergy and exploitation of the masses of faithful in favor of the rich and powerful.

Some members of this class remain within the church hierarchy, where they work to root out corrupt church leaders and their toadies, but others take to the streets to defend commoners against nobles who lack nobility. Interestingly, although these champions have invariably turned away from the structure of their faith to a greater or lesser degree, they remain strongly devoted to the belief in their deity. In turn, the god or goddess clearly favors the character’s efforts, as they continue to answer his prayers for spells and to grant him other supernatural abilities.

Hit Die: d8.

Requirements
Alignment: Non-chaotic and non-evil.
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Skills: Influence 5 ranks, Search 3 ranks, Lore 3 ranks, Spot 3 ranks.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level divine spells.

Class Skills
Antagonize, Appraise, Concentration, Discipline, Heal, Influence, Listen, Lore, Parry, Search, Spellcraft, Spot.
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features
Base Attack Bonus: +1/Level
Saving Throws: Fortitude/Will
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The people’s champion is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor and shields.
Spellcasting: At 2nd and again at 5th level, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever divine spellcasting class had granted him access to 1st-level divine spells. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved ability to turn undead and so on), except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. This essentially means that he adds the level of people’s champion to the level of his previous divine spellcasting class, then determines spells per day, spells known and caster level accordingly.
Eye for Detail: At 1st level, the people’s champion gains a +2 competence bonus on all Appraise, Listen, Search and Spot checks.
Righteous Anger: At 2nd level, the people’s champion uses his rage and indignation to add extra fuel to his crusade when things get particularly difficult. Once per day, as a free action, he can cal upon a cold fury that grants him a bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to his Wisdom modifier (minimum +1). The benefit lasts for a number of rounds equal to his people’s champion level.
Bonus Feat: At 3rd level, the people’s champion gains a bonus feat.
Aura of Confidence: At 4th level, a people’s champion has such a strong belief in the righteousness of his struggle that he inspires others by his example. He gains a +4 bonus on all saving throws against fear effects.
Inspire Confidence: At 4th level, a people’s champion has such a strong belief in the righteousness of his struggle that he inspires others by his example. He can grant nearby allies a +1 bonus to saving throws against fear effects and a +1 bonus to attack.
Unyielding Devotion: At 5th level, the people’s champion is so firm in his crusade that his mind is nearly unassailable by those who would bend it. He gains a +4 bonus on all saving throws against mind-affecting spells and effects.

Grimetrekker
Spoiler: show
Though a sewer system enhances the quality of life for city residents, it also provides ample shelter for the most loathsome creatures of the night. Those hunters who are willing to venture below to root out these evils earn praise for their courage. Hunters who spend too much time in the lightless tunnels, however, tend to acquire an unsavory reputation. Pale skin, ragged garments, and a revolting odor easily distinguish these haunted souls, colloquially termed grimetrekkers. Ultimately, grimetrekkers are more comfortable below than above, and few folk notice when they vanish for weeks at a time into the wilderness beneath the city.

Nearly all grimetrekkers begin their careers as rangers with an atypical knack for urban or subterranean tracking. Fighters and rogues have also been known to turn to the path of the grimetrekker when provoked by vengeance against sewer denizens. Though they are rare, caliban barbarian/grimetrekkers are not unprecedented. City folk often tell tales of malformed people living beneath their streets, surviving on the refuse of civilization. Many grimetrekkers cut their teeth in the sewers of Richemulot, though others hail from Dementlieu, Darkon, or the fabled twilight city of Nosos.

Hit Dice: d10.

Requirements
Base Attack Bonus: +6.
Skills: Lore 4 ranks, Search 4 ranks
Feats: Back to the Wall, Blind-Fight, Great Fortitude.

Class Skills
Animal Empathy (useable only with vermin unless ranger), Concentration, Discipline, Disable Trap, Hide, Lore, Listen, Move Silently, Parry, Search, Spot.
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class features:
Base Attack Bonus: +1 per level (same as fighter)
Saving Throws: Reflex/Fortitude based (+7 Reflex/+7 Fortitude/+3 Will at level 10)

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A grimetrekker does not gain any additional proficiency in any weapon or armor.
Favored Enemy (Vermin): At 1st level, the Grimetrekker gains Favored Enemy (Vermin), which then scales to +1, +2 and +3 at level 1, 5 and 10.
Sewer Stalker (Ex): At 1st level, a grimetrekker receives a +2 competence bonus to his Hide, Move Silently, Search, Spot and Listen skills while in a sewer. This bonus increases by +2 every other level thereafter.
Hale and Hearty (Ex): At 2nd level, a grimetrekker receives a +1 resistance bonus to his Fortitude saving throws against diseases, poisons, and the special abilities of oozes and slimes. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level and +3 at 7th level. At 9th level, a grimetrekker becomes immune to disease and poison.
Darkvision (Ex): At 2nd level, a grimetrekker permanently gains Darkvision.
Deep Breath (Ex): At 3rd level, a grimetrekker gains the ability to hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to two times her Constitution score instead of once her Constitution score. At 6th level, she can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to three times her Constitution score.
Sewer Legs (Ex): At 4th level, a grimetrekker gains a 10% movement speed increase when travelling in sewer areas. This increases to 20% at level 8.
Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): At 8th level, the grimetrekker gains the ability to Hide in Plain Sight in underground areas.

Monster Hunter
Spoiler: show
Known to the folk of Ravenloft as monster hunters, these men and women are scholarly adventurers who research dangerous creatures seeking their weaknesses in order to eliminate them more easily. Monster hunters generally prefer to defeat their foes using knowledge, guile and superior tactics rather than brute force. Monster hunters learn to cast a few spells to assist in their hunt. A few have been mistaken as witches due to this ability. Monster hunters are generally of good alignment, but some become too zealous or fall into the trap of taking on their foes' tactics or worldview, usually without realizing they have done so. Evil monster hunters usually still believe themselves to be good, but may overlook a few mistakes or a too-forceful questioning of innocents in their pursuit of their foes.

Hit Die: d6.

Prerequisites:
Base Attack Bonus: + 2
Search: 4 ranks
Lore: 3 ranks
Feats: Courage, Expertise

Class Skills
The monster hunter's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Discipline (Str), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Lore (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Parry (Dex), Search (Int), Set Trap (Dex), Spot (Wis).
Skill points at each level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the monster hunter prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A monster hunter is proficient with all simple weapons, light armor and medium armor.

Favored Enemy: The character gains a +1 bonus to any damage delivered to his favored enemy. He also receives a +1 bonus on listen, spot, and antagonize checks against the favored enemy. The Monster Hunter can pick more favored enemies throughout his progression.

Turn Undead: Monster hunters often possess remarkable reservoirs of faith. When a monster hunter reaches 3rd level, she gains the supernatural ability to turn undead. The monster hunter turns undead as would a cleric of two levels lower.

Spellcasting: The Monster Hunter gains new spells per day following the same table as blackguards (see link below for progression):

Level 1:
Alarm
Disrupt Undead
Light
Magic Weapon
Protection from Evil

Level 2:
Ultravision
Knock
Light Step
See Invisibility
Flame Weapon

Level 3:
Diminish Undead
Dispel Magic
Halt Undead
Magic Circle against Evil
Greater Magic Weapon

Level 4:
Remove Curse
True Seeing
Hold Monster
Heroism
Improved Invisibility

The progression follows this table:
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/TheVault/SotDR_Errata.html
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: EO on April 29, 2018, 09:33:34 PM: Hallowed Witch
Spoiler: show
Devotees of Hala often speak of the Weave, a hidden web of magical power which flows through the natural world. The magic of the Weave is not arcane or divine, but something wholly different, the mystical pulse of the land and all its living creatures. Hags have learned to tap into the Weave and corrupt it to their whims, tangling it like a cat's cradle on their wicked talons. For those who are pure of heart and wise in the ways of magic, however, the Weave can open up new realms of magical power, brimming with all the fury of nature Herself. These are the hallowed witches, spellcasters who have seen the pattern of the Weave and made it their ally, tool, and weapon. Their art is known as witchcraft, and in its pursuit they gather together in covens to fortify their power.

The hallowed witches (or warlocks, if male) are always drawn from Hala's worshippers, though they need not be members of the priesthood. A hallowed witch's divine spellcasting class is often cleric, but druids and rangers are also accepted into covens.

- Base Attack Bonus: +1 / 2 Level.
- Hit Die: d6.
- Primary Saving Throws: Fortitude, Will.
- Proficiencies: A hallowed witch does not gain any additional weapon or armor proficiencies.
- Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier.

Class Skills: Animal Empathy, Concentration, Heal, Hide, Influence, Lore, Move Silently, Spellcraft.
Unavailable Skills: Use Magic Device.

REQUIREMENTS:

Alignment: True Neutral
Feats: Spell Focus (Divination or Enchantment).
Skills: Lore 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells and 2nd-level divine spells.

ABILITIES:

Level
1: Minor Witchcraft Ability - Cast a minor spell as a spell-like ability 3 times / day.
2: Weave Protection - Gain spell resistance equal to 10 + class level / 2.
3: Medium Witchcraft Ability - Cast a medium spell as a spell-like ability 2 times / day.
6: Major Witchcraft Ability - Cast a major spell as a spell-like ability 1 time / day.

WITCHCRAFT ABILITIES:

Hallowed witches have learned to tap the Weave and channel its energy into magical effects. Though superficially similar to the divine spells of druids or the arcane spells of wizards and sorcerers, these effects are actually spell-like abilities.

Whenever a hallowed witch receives minor, medium, or major witchcraft abilities, she may select one spell-like ability from the appropriate list. Once an ability is selected, it may never be changed, and a hallowed witch may not select an ability more than once. Minor abilities are usable three times per day, medium abilities are usable two times per day, and major abilities are usable once per day. For these abilities, the hallowed witch's caster level is equal to her hallowed witch level. The saving throw against these abilities has a DC of 10 + the character's hallowed witch level + Charisma modifier.

BONUS SPELLS:

The character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in both his arcane and divine caster classes and his caster level in both classes increases accordingly.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: haifisch021 on April 30, 2018, 08:48:10 AM: Quote from: EO on April 29, 2018, 09:33:34 PM
1: Minor Witchcraft Ability - Cast a minor spell as a spell-like ability 3 times / day.

3: Medium Witchcraft Ability - Cast a medium spell as a spell-like ability 2 times / day.

6: Major Witchcraft Ability - Cast a major spell as a spell-like ability 1 time / day.

What are the parameters of minor, medium, and major spells? Are they defined in terms of spell level, or is there another factor?

The PrC looks pretty cool by the way! :D
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: DM Cataclysm on April 30, 2018, 11:17:27 AM: EO provided this on Discord for the Witchcraft abilities : )

HW_Minor_Charm_Person
HW_Minor_Detect_Poison
HW_Minor_Sleep
HW_Minor_Summon_Creature_I
HW_Minor_Daze_Animal
HW_Medium_Blindness_and_Deafness
HW_Medium_Call_Lightning
HW_Medium_Cure_Moderate_Wounds
HW_Medium_Dominate_Animal
HW_Medium_Gust_of_Wind
HW_Medium_Hold_Animal
HW_Medium_Hold_Person
HW_Medium_Neutralize_Poison
HW_Medium_Remove_Disease
HW_Medium_Summon_Creature_III
HW_Medium_Tashas_Hideous_Laughter
HW_Major_Awaken
HW_Major_Bestow_Curse
HW_Major_Charm_Monster
HW_Major_Confusion
HW_Major_Cure_Serious_Wounds
HW_Major_Dominate_Person
HW_Major_Feeblemind
HW_Major_Ice_Storm
HW_Major_Creeping_Doom
HW_Major_Baleful_Polymorph
HW_Major_Polymorph
HW_Major_Summon_Creature_V
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: ethinos on April 30, 2018, 08:34:56 PM: Quote from: EO on April 29, 2018, 09:33:34 PM
Hallowed Witch

REQUIREMENTS:

Spellcasting: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells and 2nd-level divine spells.

BONUS SPELLS:

The character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in both his arcane and divine caster classes and his caster level in both classes increases accordingly.

Is this right, they need to be able to cast 2nd level arcane AND divine spells to qualify for the prestige class? Also, getting two classes worth of spells per one level of the PrC seems a bit much. Wouldn't a 5 Wizard / 5 Cleric / 10 Witch end up having 15 levels of wizard and cleric spells each, casting them effectively as a level 15? Seems kind of strong when you include the other witch benefits of more spell like abilities and spell resistance.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Nemesis 24 on April 30, 2018, 09:13:42 PM: I agree it 'is' a strong one but there's a couple of crucial things to take into account with it. For one, it'll never get level 9 spells. Two, it will have to deal with a significant stat split - 18 in both wisdom and int/charisma to get the most out of it, which is frankly unlikely. Three, it has an alignment restriction - that doesn't seem like much, but if it is alignment restricted it can also have a 'fall' mechanic much like paladin does, which I'd like to assume would put an end to spellcasting. And four, its a PRC, thus gated. It's strong, sure, but it may also suffer from the same problem as Pale Master with its spell caster progression too, which could be a headache.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: ethinos on April 30, 2018, 09:24:45 PM: Quote from: Nemesis 24 on April 30, 2018, 09:13:42 PM
I agree it 'is' a strong one but there's a couple of crucial things to take into account with it. For one, it'll never get level 9 spells. Two, it will have to deal with a significant stat split - 18 in both wisdom and int/charisma to get the most out of it, which is frankly unlikely. Three, it has an alignment restriction - that doesn't seem like much, but if it is alignment restricted it can also have a 'fall' mechanic much like paladin does, which I'd like to assume would put an end to spellcasting. And four, its a PRC, thus gated. It's strong, sure, but it may also suffer from the same problem as Pale Master with its spell caster progression too, which could be a headache.

If we go with 7 Wizard, 3 Cleric, 10 Witch, they would indeed get 9th level Wizard spells (or vice versa with 3 Wizard, 7 Cleric, 10 Witch), and still get 7th level spells in the other class.

Edited to add:

The stat split isn't a big deal and neither is the alignment restriction. Being a PRC means it's gated but this is likely to be relatively easy to qualify for and it turns you into one heckuva spell slinging monster. As for Pale Master, they only get one caster level boost with the PM levels and I don't think anyone considers them a powerful alternative to a straight wizard. This class is quite strong with just the double caster class progression and that doesn't include the extra abilities. Granted, you don't get the divine/arcane class feats and other abilities, but I'd love to get two levels worth of spells and effectiveness with one level of Witch.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: EO on April 30, 2018, 10:01:29 PM: It's indeed quite powerful but it's also very restrictive as Nem mentioned. It's a very niche concept, a witch of Hala, and our app system weeds out people who want PrCs for powerbuilding reasons pretty well. And if you don't get approved you are stuck with a dysfunctional character.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Iridni Ren on April 30, 2018, 10:31:00 PM: The 7 Wiz / 3 Cleric/ 10 Witch looks indeed strong.

Versus pure Wizard, the player gives up levels 18 to 20 in Wizard. Consider that a 17 Wizard, 3 Cleric build would be prevented by the existing rules of not allowing a greater than 10 level gap, but this build is stronger in every way.

The actual cost of those three levels:

* 1 7th, 2 8th, and 3 9th level spell slots, or a total (levels x spells) of 50 spell slot levels.

In return for those three levels of Wizard, the PC gains:

* 30 extra HP

* 26 extra Skill points

* Much better Fortitude saving throws as Wizards have only Will as a primary saving throw

* 13th level in divine spell casting equal to 77 total levels of spell slots

The stat split is somewhat of a big deal because the most points you can achieve with maximum efficiency is 83, but to get one stat to 17 and another to 19 you have to start one at 16 and the other at 15 (and then pump them with your stat increases along the way). So that subtracts three from the overall maximum, meaning you have 80 total points. Eighty minus 36 for your Wis and Int leaves 44 to divide among four other stats.

Quote
It's a very niche concept, a witch of Hala, and our app system weeds out people who want PrCs for powerbuilding reasons pretty well. And if you don't get approved you are stuck with a dysfunctional character.

This was my main impression upon reading the class description, which all begs the question of why have a very niche class that will be rarely approved, those who don't will be left with "dysfunctional characters," and those few who do will be "quite powerful"? It seems likely to generate negativity and headaches as a poor return for the time spent developing (and debugging) it.

ETA: Since the server is resetting, I had some time to think about this more :) Two other considerable advantages are the Turn Undead ability (and a chance to take one of the feats that functions off this), plus the armor and weapons proficiencies of a cleric.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Nemesis 24 on April 30, 2018, 11:03:14 PM: I have to admit to quite liking the encouragement it gives to playing a proper Halan, myself. Yes, its powerful - but considering its quite likely that this class and character would exist in Hazlan of all places, due to its background, its a massive risk to play it. But we do need a stronger Halan presence, as it is one of the main faiths of the setting.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: DM Cataclysm on April 30, 2018, 11:14:08 PM: A few other things to note, comparing the build previously mentioned to a pure wizard. Aside from losing levels 18 - 20 in wizard and needing to split stats, you'd also lose:

Several bonus feats granted by wizard
Any spells 'learned' for those levels

This would function in a similar manner to Pale Master, where your Hallowed Witch levels would give you access to more spells per day, but wouldn't give you access to learning the normal 2/level a pure wizard gets - meaning you'd have to find scrolls for anything learned. Not impossible by any means, but scrolls have become substantially more difficult to come by and are much pricier than they used to be. Level 9 scrolls are all but non-existent now.

Still a very powerful class, but there are drawbacks and a good deal of restrictions to getting it. I think it's a really cool concept - definitely support it :D
Title: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Mereyn on May 01, 2018, 01:19:59 AM: Quote from: EO on April 29, 2018, 09:33:34 PM
Hallowed Witch
Spoiler: show
Devotees of Hala often speak of the Weave, a hidden web of magical power which flows through the natural world. The magic of the Weave is not arcane or divine, but something wholly different, the mystical pulse of the land and all its living creatures. Hags have learned to tap into the Weave and corrupt it to their whims, tangling it like a cat's cradle on their wicked talons. For those who are pure of heart and wise in the ways of magic, however, the Weave can open up new realms of magical power, brimming with all the fury of nature Herself. These are the hallowed witches, spellcasters who have seen the pattern of the Weave and made it their ally, tool, and weapon. Their art is known as witchcraft, and in its pursuit they gather together in covens to fortify their power.

The hallowed witches (or warlocks, if male) are always drawn from Hala's worshippers, though they need not be members of the priesthood. A hallowed witch's divine spellcasting class is often cleric, but druids and rangers are also accepted into covens.

- Base Attack Bonus: +1 / 2 Level.
- Hit Die: d6.
- Primary Saving Throws: Fortitude, Will.
- Proficiencies: A hallowed witch does not gain any additional weapon or armor proficiencies.
- Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier.

Class Skills: Animal Empathy, Concentration, Heal, Hide, Influence, Lore, Move Silently, Spellcraft.
Unavailable Skills: Use Magic Device.

REQUIREMENTS:

Alignment: True Neutral
Feats: Spell Focus (Divination or Enchantment).
Skills: Lore 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells and 2nd-level divine spells.

ABILITIES:

Level
1: Minor Witchcraft Ability - Cast a minor spell as a spell-like ability 3 times / day.
2: Weave Protection - Gain spell resistance equal to 10 + class level / 2.
3: Medium Witchcraft Ability - Cast a medium spell as a spell-like ability 2 times / day.
6: Major Witchcraft Ability - Cast a major spell as a spell-like ability 1 time / day.

WITCHCRAFT ABILITIES:

Hallowed witches have learned to tap the Weave and channel its energy into magical effects. Though superficially similar to the divine spells of druids or the arcane spells of wizards and sorcerers, these effects are actually spell-like abilities.

Whenever a hallowed witch receives minor, medium, or major witchcraft abilities, she may select one spell-like ability from the appropriate list. Once an ability is selected, it may never be changed, and a hallowed witch may not select an ability more than once. Minor abilities are usable three times per day, medium abilities are usable two times per day, and major abilities are usable once per day. For these abilities, the hallowed witch's caster level is equal to her hallowed witch level. The saving throw against these abilities has a DC of 10 + the character's hallowed witch level + Charisma modifier.

BONUS SPELLS:

The character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in both his arcane and divine caster classes and his caster level in both classes increases accordingly.

Any possibility of the Anchorite of the Mists prestige class on the horizon, then?
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: k_moustakas on May 01, 2018, 05:29:26 AM: Didn't we used to have a rule saying you must take at least 5 of each class, making the 7/3 split impossible?
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: DM Cataclysm on May 01, 2018, 08:31:02 AM: I believe the only rule is that your classes can't be more than 10 levels apart (excluding prestige classes). That means if you want to just dual class you have to do at least 15 | 5, and I think that has lead people to believe there is a 5 minimum, which isn't really accurate.

One thing I'm wondering on this is if we would want to alter the requirements to prevent tier 9 spells - as that seems to be the biggest point of contention. Instead of requiring the casting of level 2 spells, could we require 4 arcane casting class levels and 4 divine casting class levels as the prereq? In that case, you could end up with 15/15 or 14/16 and it would prevent this class from accessing tier 9 spells, which would give a boost to pure arcane or divine classes.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: DM Brimstone on May 01, 2018, 09:54:23 AM: A minimum of 5 levels are required for prestige classes only. Besides that, you have the rule that no two classes can be more than ten levels apart, as Mika said.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: APorg on May 01, 2018, 09:58:26 AM: http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=2863.msg34635#msg34635

- Classes must be no more than 10 levels apart when multiclassing.

- All prestige classes must have at least 5 levels in them

Therefore:

- Cleric 3/Wizard 7/Hallowed Witch 10 is a legitimate build, AFAIK.

- Rogue X/Ranger Y/Shadowdancer 1 is never a legitimate build.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Iridni Ren on May 01, 2018, 10:08:46 AM: Quote from: Mika! on May 01, 2018, 08:31:02 AM
One thing I'm wondering on this is if we would want to alter the requirements to prevent tier 9 spells - as that seems to be the biggest point of contention. Instead of requiring the casting of level 2 spells, could we require 4 arcane casting class levels and 4 divine casting class levels as the prereq? In that case, you could end up with 15/15 or 14/16 and it would prevent this class from accessing tier 9 spells, which would give a boost to pure arcane or divine classes.

In light of the rules regarding a 10-level gap and prestige classes, some change similar to this makes perfect sense. That is, normally one cannot multiclass and achieve highest circle spells. As described this class allows the circumvention of that limit.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: TheGrinningHound on May 01, 2018, 11:04:54 AM: This is a very powerful class gated behind extremely narrow requirements and a tough application process. I think it's super neat.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: ethinos on May 01, 2018, 01:02:00 PM: Casters are already the most powerful characters in game and they now have the ability to get 30 caster levels with no real downsides. You only need 19/17 in the two primary stats and by the time you hit 20, that's easy. True Neutral is hardly a difficult alignment to deal with and I think anyone can rationalize a valid Hallowed Witch concept character. Granted you may give up a couple feats but you gain a crap ton of spells on a server where spells are the best thing there is. Finding 7th level scrolls isn't that hard plus you can use all wizard items even in armor if you wanted to walk around as an armored cleric type. I'm already thinking of a 7 cleric, 3 wizard, 10 witch. You'd be a 17th level cleric caster, a 13th level wizard caster, and then consider the Hallowed Witch spell-like abilities as a bonus on top. Having a weakened Turn Undead means little to me, especially on this server where it's even further weakened. As for the Wizard, I'd be losing two Wizard feats which is also meaningless when you pretty much become a demigod.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Iridni Ren on May 01, 2018, 01:32:40 PM: Quote from: ethinos on May 01, 2018, 01:02:00 PM
Casters are already the most powerful characters in game and they now have the ability to get 30 caster levels with no real downsides. You only need 19/17 in the two primary stats and by the time you hit 20, that's easy. True Neutral is hardly a difficult alignment to deal with and I think anyone can rationalize a valid Hallowed Witch concept character. Granted you may give up a couple feats but you gain a crap ton of spells on a server where spells are the best thing there is. Finding 7th level scrolls isn't that hard plus you can use all wizard items even in armor if you wanted to walk around as an armored cleric type. I'm already thinking of a 7 cleric, 3 wizard, 10 witch. You'd be a 17th level cleric caster, a 13th level wizard caster, and then consider the Hallowed Witch spell-like abilities as a bonus on top. Having a weakened Turn Undead means little to me, especially on this server where it's even further weakened. As for the Wizard, I'd be losing two Wizard feats which is also meaningless when you pretty much become a demigod.

I forgot in listing my advantages of the class, I left off:

Quote
1: Minor Witchcraft Ability - Cast a minor spell as a spell-like ability 3 times / day.

3: Medium Witchcraft Ability - Cast a medium spell as a spell-like ability 2 times / day.

6: Major Witchcraft Ability - Cast a major spell as a spell-like ability 1 time / day.

Regarding giving up feats, a feat is worth roughly four skill points. (Many feats give the player 2 skill points in 2 skills or 4 skill points in a single skill, so I think that's a fair equivalency.) Since the class gets 26 extra skill points over either a wizard or a cleric, it would have to lose more than 6 feats to compensate for this gain.

Consider being able to buff as a 17th level wizard, don armor, and then have all the healing of a 13th level cleric as well as offensive cleric spells available.

Turn Undead isn't really gimped, either, because unless you're actually turning undead, you can make excellent use of it with one of the other feats. Duration and potency rely generally on Charisma rather than level. You won't likely have a very high innate Cha, but you can sure buff it with all those spells you have.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: DM Cataclysm on May 01, 2018, 02:02:40 PM: I believe with this scenario, you would lose 4 feats.

While there are some feats that are skill-oriented, I do think it's difficult to compare feats lost to skill points gained. Feats like standard or greater spell penetration, spell focus, feats to augment summons/undead, to gain metamagic, etc - can't be replaced with any number of skill points. It's fair to say that while 4 is not a drastic number - you are going to have to be much more selective, especially considering you'll have class-specific feats for multiple classes open.

I still wouldn't argue that this is an exceptionally powerful class, but certainly some drawbacks to consider as well.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: MAB77 on May 01, 2018, 03:37:35 PM: We are indeed well aware of that class potential. But any Halan Witch would be expected to maintain the highest rp standards. A true neutral alignment is easy to lose. I trust the DMs to intervene long before such char becomes a problem if the powers are abused.

As to the eventual inclusion of other Ravenloft themed PrCs, we always look forward to it. It always boils down to the possibility of correctly implementing the class' mechanics. We'd all love an Anchorite or Knight of the Shadows PrCs, but it has to be done right. Hopefully EE might allow us to do just that. Only time will tell.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Iridni Ren on May 01, 2018, 03:53:35 PM: Quote from: Mika! on May 01, 2018, 02:02:40 PM
I believe with this scenario, you would lose 4 feats.

Not to be argumentative but feat progression still confuses me here, and particularly for wizards I don't understand how the feats work. How did you calculate this?

The Wiki http://nwnravenloft.wikia.com/wiki/Wizard

disagrees with what's in the forum http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=45851.msg573176#msg573176

but assuming the forum is correct, a wizard gains 1 feat per level. Clerics (and I assume Hala Witches would as well) receive 2 feats every three levels. In that case, it's reasonable to assume 10 non-wizard levels would cost 3 or 4 feats. But here's what I don't understand:

Could, for example, the player always take cleric levels on levels when clerics get feats and take wizard levels on levels when wizards get feats, thereby avoiding any lost feats?

In any case, witches get the feats of simple weapons, armor, and shields without having to take those because of the cleric dip. So that somewhat offsets the loss of three or four feats. They also gain access to the following Skills:

Through the cleric dip: Influence, Parry
Through the Hala Witch dip: Hide, Move Silently

(Another question: I was trying to find what the Weave Domain grants, and it appears unsupported. Will it be added now in view of this class?)

On this server, wizards are generally assumed to be the strongest class at least at the highest levels. It appears to me a 10/7/3 Hala Witch/ Wizard / Cleric is measurably stronger than a 20th level Wizard.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: DM Brimstone on May 01, 2018, 04:19:42 PM: The wiki and the forum page do correlate. Both show just the bonus feats received for the class only. It doesn't include the feats all characters get at 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18 or any bonus feats for race (humans get an extra first level feat). It all equates to 1 feat per level as a wizard (with 2 feats received at level 1 for human wizards).
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: DM Cataclysm on May 01, 2018, 04:29:16 PM: Yeah, feat progression here can be pretty confusing - especially if you multi-class! It took me several years to really get the hang of it.

The reason that the wiki and the forum look different, is because the wiki is ONLY listing the levels on which the class receives a bonus feat. The top section on the custom progression on the forum lists any level on which the character receives a feat, either standard or bonus. Between standard and bonus feats, a pure wizard receives a feat every level.

When multiclassing, you can’t ‘avoid’ levels where the character wouldn’t normally receive a feat, to gain access to more. So, let’s say you’ve taken 5 Wizard levels and you want to take a Cleric level. When determining if you’ll get a feat, you look at level 1 for Cleric and not your total character level (6). In this case you shouldn’t receive a feat, because when multiclassing - you lose the feat at level 1.

So, if you take 8 levels of Cleric in a multiclass or 8 straight through, you’ll still miss feats on the same level for the class (with the exception of the extra missing feat when multiclassing)
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Iridni Ren on May 01, 2018, 04:30:57 PM: Thanks for clearing that up .

Both of you :)
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Blight on May 01, 2018, 07:16:45 PM: It's absolutely a powerful class.

And the True Neutral alignment restricts you to use that power in very limited ways.

All that magic and you have to more or less remain detached from the going ons of the world on a direct level. Keeping everything in balance and nothing more.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Iridni Ren on May 02, 2018, 09:49:27 AM: Changing gears from how powerful a wizard-cleric-hallowed witch is, I'd like to quote some things from the lore:

Quote
The core of a coven is three witches or warlocks. This is the smallest membership a coven can have and still be a functioning coven. As soon as a third member is added to the coven, all three of its members gain the extra powers that come with coven membership. The coven then grows from that point, and as the coven increases in numbers so do the magical powers that can be tapped by its members. The largest and most powerful covens have a maximum of thirteen members.

(Quoting the above from EO here http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=12945.msg149872#msg149872, but original source is stated as Van Richten Monster Hunter's Compendium III.)

And this is from Bluebomber http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=12945.msg567441#msg567441:

Quote
Witch/Warlock covens are a separate part of the Halan religion from the priesthood, although they work together. Witches/Warlocks pass their powers down through their descendents, so they often marry and have children (in fact, one has to be born into the tradition to become a witch/warlock; it is not something a person can convert to). The non-witch/warlock priesthood, however, seems to have a monastic tradition, with nuns and friars who apparently do not marry or have children.

Since we do not currently have a means to mechanically reproduce the natural-born powers of Halan witches/warlocks, it is assumed that players would be playing non-witch/warlock Halan priests.

Does any of that sound like wizardry? Not to me. It sounds like sorcery.

It would seem to follow then, that rather than being able to use wizardry to fulfill the arcane levels, the PC would have to use sorcerer (or perhaps bard).
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: DM Cataclysm on May 02, 2018, 12:31:10 PM: From my understanding, Sorcerer is not compatible for this type of class due to current NWN engine limitations. Since a class like this or Pale Master gives access to new spells per day, but doesn’t allow the character to learn spells - and as sorcerers can’t learn from scrolls, they wouldn’t be able to use magic for the new spells per day they’re gaining.

It might be a possibility in EE, but I’m not sure!
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Iridni Ren on May 02, 2018, 02:01:03 PM: Per MAB, "any Halan Witch would be expected to maintain the highest rp standards." The class will also be gated behind an application, so that understanding of and adherence to the RP resources is going to be essential (I would think) in writing the app.

How does one RP "inherited" and "natural-born abilities" that are gained through learning scrolls and enscribing a spellbook?
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: EO on May 02, 2018, 02:39:34 PM: Quote from: Iridni Ren on May 02, 2018, 02:01:03 PM
Per MAB, "any Halan Witch would be expected to maintain the highest rp standards." The class will also be gated behind an application, so that understanding of and adherence to the RP resources is going to be essential (I would think) in writing the app.

How does one RP "inherited" and "natural-born abilities" that are gained through learning scrolls and enscribing a spellbook?

The PrC is from VRA, not the 2e books.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: MAB77 on May 02, 2018, 10:36:54 PM: And being an Halan Witch is so much more than inherited abilities. It is a solemn duty to protect the weave from whoever abusing it, be they heroic or villainous. They do not just hunt down hags, they keep tab on as many spellcasters as they can. Intervening when they deem it necessary. Next to the Ba'al Verzi, it is the ultimate secret society, requiring utmost dedication in hiding from others, even loved ones, the powers they hold. A necessity as you can bet the good church of Belenus, as well as the evil one of the Lawgiver will hunt them down! Really, you do not have to worry, RP will come easily to Halan Witches. It's practically knocking at their doors already.

My suggestion for the upcoming NCE? Inquisitors of Belenus vs Halan Witches. The good clerics of Tepest hunting down that elusive and subversive coven of witches which "threatens the soul of mortals".

If the idea interests you, PM me, stating on which side you'd like to get. I would discretely put players from each side in contact with each others so their cover is not publicly blown.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: McNastea on May 03, 2018, 01:55:45 AM: Quote from: Iridni Ren on May 02, 2018, 02:01:03 PM
Per MAB, "any Halan Witch would be expected to maintain the highest rp standards." The class will also be gated behind an application, so that understanding of and adherence to the RP resources is going to be essential (I would think) in writing the app.

How does one RP "inherited" and "natural-born abilities" that are gained through learning scrolls and enscribing a spellbook?

You can't rp "inherited" and "natural-born abilities" gained through learning scrolls because any class that uses "inherited" and "natural-born abilties" for magic -can't- learn magic through scrolls. Only wizards can learn magic through scrolls and they do neither of those things, as Mika pointed out. That is a simple fact of D&D and will not be changed by the EE.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: McNastea on May 03, 2018, 02:00:28 AM: As for my own feelings on the class, I think it would be pretty neat to see people who had bothered putting forth the rigorous rp required to achieve such a class at the risk of ruining their character completely achieve 15/17. That's just me, I've never felt any need for D&D to be "balanced" as so many seem to though. I've always enjoyed the imbalance that occurs from it, in fact. Life isn't fair, and if we strive for rp above all then why too should classes.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Razzen on May 03, 2018, 06:51:08 AM: I'm fine with the OP class as long as we don't see an influx of Halan Witches all of a sudden. I don't want like 5-10 witches just constantly running around the outskirts. One other thing, I might be pessimistic but the degree to which a DM can verify the quality of RP of a player is questionable. The reason for this being that it seems to me we're already low on DMs and therefore it might be hard for them to handle another "assignment".
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Arawn on May 03, 2018, 08:53:35 AM: Whoops, edited instead of replying.

In any case, that’s why we have applications evidenced with screenshots. And the CC decides PrC apps, not the DMs.
Title: Re: New Prestige Classes
Post by: Ercvadasz on August 14, 2019, 09:25:14 AM: A few questions and remarks the GrimeTrekker class if I may.

1, Firstly does the FE of the class advance in synergy with other Favoured enemy classes?
Like say a level 5 ranger and a level 10 grimetrekker. Because the FE description in game says:

"These bonuses improve by +1 for every 5 levels in the class that granted the feat the character has."

So in this case if i understand well the ranger FE enemies remain +2, whereas the grimetrekker receveis +3 vs vermin.

2, Is there any level 10 bonus for taking up the PRC beside the sewer stalker and the FE? (if not seems very limited)

Remark:

I read the class and gave a few thoughts about it and came up with a few ideas, but sadly it is just not worth it. Mainly it is better for folks to remain pure rangers, since they also get the HIPS and they also get BANEbow.

The boosts that the class gives are sadly beside the underground hips and the sewer speed and skill bonuses quite useless.
Since they can be easily overcome with potions or even items:
-disease and poison saves: there are a lot of items that offer saves for each, not to mention neutralize poison and remove disease are also available to rangers, and potions.
-deep breath: with the abudance of mermaid bracers, does not seem really useful.
-special abilities of oozes: well that is mostly paralyze, daze, confused, and a few others maybe, that again...other spells and potions, and also quite restricted useage, since there is not such a huge variation of oozes and slimes.

- sewer legs: Quite useful if it would not be restricted to like 12 maps on the whole server.
- Sewer stalker: Quite useful but also restricted to like 12 maps on the whole server. (12 is just a rude estimation! but i doubt it is much more than +-5)
- HIPS in underground areas: very useful, and strange how the other two are restricted to sewers, yet this one is all underground, since it again can be the most useful in sewers where the sewer stalker bonuses are applied to it as well.

I really like this PRC, but mechanically speaking sadly it is not so great for the places it was meant to live and be. (Vallaki and Port sewers.)

It is much weaker than the same level ranger. The bonuses it receives are either VERY restricted use, or can be imitated by items, potions, or ranger spells, making it not worth to choose this over ranger. (beside the hips underground)
In vallaki sewers this class could be living quite easily and nearly undetected, however it would not really have any place to go thereafter, simply because the port sewers has a number of creatures that have "Tremorsense". As in it does not matter that the character can sneak or hips, he will be ALLWAYS detected by these creatures.

Currently i would say that taking up this class as either a rogue or a ranger is not worth it. (Especially since if you take it 5 levels are needed to be had in this one and each class loses out more than they gain.)
It also does not really make a good choice for other classes.(Barbs, or fighters)

I would suggest to add maybe another or two FE or two oozes, and insects, or shapeshifters. And make their skill and movement bonuses apply in all underground environments. This would make the class gain a more diverse use, and would allow them to not be restricted to the two sewer areas we have on the server.

And if possible make the class have synergy with other FE feats as well. (I am currently making this remark thinking that the FE bonuses of different FE classes do not stack! Like ranger 5 monster hunter 5 grimetrekker 5, would have a lot of Favoured enemies, but each one would be at best giving +2/+3 instead of +5 to each, which again loses in comparision to staying a pure ranger!)