Shield Wall:
You have learned to fight with a shield in a coordinated group with other, trained individuals.
For each other friendly player within X ft who also has the Shield Wall feat, you gain +1 Dodge AC Up to a cap of Y.
Stoic Shield I, II and III
Your hard work and practice has paid off, making you harder to strike with your shield in hand.
Grants +1 AC for each level, taken to a maximum of [Skill]/10 Or +3 AC, whichever is lowest.
Stoic Shield I, II and III
Your hard work and practice has paid off, making you harder to strike with your shield in hand.
Grants +1 AC for each level, taken to a maximum of [Skill]/10 Or +3 AC, whichever is lowest.
I thought [Skill] Could possibly be discipline, and all of these feats would need us to work out requirements of level, class, and stats.
So, what do y'all think?
Shield Angling:
A devotee of the shield can lessen the power of a blow, even if it does pass his guard
Grants a damage a immunity (Physical) to a shield user based on that shields base AC
5% for small, 10% for large and 15% for Tower
Skilled Blocking:
A talented shield user knows how and when to use even a small shield to good effect
Grants a bonus to AC based on [Skill] up to the point of a small or large shield being as effective as a tower shield
Shield Angling:
A devotee of the shield can lessen the power of a blow, even if it does pass his guard
Grants a damage a immunity (Physical) to a shield user based on that shields base AC
5% for small, 10% for large and 15% for Tower
Shield Wall:
You have learned to fight with a shield in a coordinated group with other, trained individuals.
For each other friendly player within X ft who also has the Shield Wall feat, you gain +1 Dodge AC Up to a cap of Y.
Mystic Block:
You have honed your skills to the point where you may anticipate and intercept incoming offensive, targeted spells
You gain a Spell Resistance equal to 10+3 for every base point of AC of your shield.
13 for small, 16 for large and 19 for Tower
Stoic Shield I, II and III
Your hard work and practice has paid off, making you harder to strike with your shield in hand.
Grants +1 AC for each level, taken to a maximum of [Skill]/10 Or +3 AC, whichever is lowest.
This one, I already discussed my feelings about in detail. I think it is too strong, and I think it is completely unnecessary to give more AC to shield users.
Shield Angling:
A devotee of the shield can lessen the power of a blow, even if it does pass his guard
Grants a damage a immunity (Physical) to a shield user based on that shields base AC
5% for small, 10% for large and 15% for Tower
Please keep in mind that immunity is applied before any DR is, which means for most of the mid to late game content, this feat will constantly be blocking two to six points of damage for a tower shield user. Considering even adamantine is 3/- DR and it requires quite a bit of time and some resources, as well as a skilled smelter and smith, to get and it sells easily for up to over a 100,000 gold, giving equivalent or even superior kind of damage reduction to a feat that stacks with and even amplifies all the other forms of DR doesn't make sense to me.
This one, I already discussed my feelings about in detail. I think it is too strong, and I think it is completely unnecessary to give more AC to shield users.
Necessary isn't the issue. It would be nice. Currently melee characters have two options: Train hard to learn how to fight effectively without a shield, or train nothing and use a shield. What is so wrong with a third option: training hard at being better at using a shield? That shield means a sacrifice of offense. It's not going to hurt anyone. What it will do is open up new build options and opportunities for people who actually LIKE the knightly aescthetic of plate mail and shield.
Saying that giving shield users more build options is not the same as saying they are not viable.
Would allowing shield users to spend feats and/or skills to be better at using a shield hurt anyone? No.
Would it add variety? Yes.
Problem? Still no idea.
Further ideas: 2 feats, one for deflection, one for absorption.
Name of Feat: Shield Style: Buckler
Requirements: Shield Proficiency, Improved Parry
Effect: You have grown adept at intercepting and turning aside blows with smaller shields, actively moving them towards your opponent to intercept blows instead of keeping them passively at your side. When you have a light shield equipped you now gain +1 Dodge AC for every X points of Parry skill you have, up to a maximum of Z. If you have a medium shield equipped, you gain +1 Dodge AC for every Y points of Parry, up to a maximum of Z. You do not get any Parry AC bonuses for using a tower shield.
(( Where Y > X ))
Name of Feat: Shield Style: Wall
Requirements: Shield Proficiency, Base Attack Bonus +6 or better
Effect: You have mastered the art of absorbing blows with the parts of the shield not directly over your arm, and flexing your arm to cushion the impact. When you have a medium shield equipped, you gain X% physical damage immunity. When you have a tower shield equipped, you gain Y% physical damage immunity. You do not gain any damage immunity for using a light shield.
((Where Y > X ))
Note that a parry build who can overcome the -2 penalty of the medium shield and has sufficiently high parry skill can take both feats and while using a medium shield, benefit from both
I like the idea of using discipline over parry for these feats.
I like the idea of using discipline over parry for these feats.
Yes, the more I think about it, the more I think it should result in the same investment of feats and skills (The new feat + skill focus discipline + discipline gear ). However, there's no armor penalty to Discipline, so the amount of discipline required should be quite high. Maybe for every 10 or 15 instead of Parry's 5.
So.. an idea just came to mind fir a feat.. blame fifth edition for it but more so to help fighter still even if but a little.. But say have a feat for pure fighter where they grown quick enough with using the shield they can add it's ac to their reflex. Small giving +1 large +2 tower +3
This could be seen as over powering but since many fighters only wear heavy they tend to have a low dex
Mainly for IC sense reasons do I harp on the more AC thing. I don't think it makes IC sense for a guy with a giant piece of wood and steel covering most of the left side of his body to be less good at blocking blows than a guy with a dagger in his left hand, and has to resort to MAGIC to get as good or better.
However, I'm not completely married to the idea of higher AC for shields. See my last suggestion which involved Parry builds able to use light and medium shields, and non-parry builds to train for added benefit from medium and tower.
((Quote edited to remove numbers because I'm not married to the numbers ))Further ideas: 2 feats, one for deflection, one for absorption.
Name of Feat: Shield Style: Buckler
Requirements: Shield Proficiency, Improved Parry
Effect: You have grown adept at intercepting and turning aside blows with smaller shields, actively moving them towards your opponent to intercept blows instead of keeping them passively at your side. When you have a light shield equipped you now gain +1 Dodge AC for every X points of Parry skill you have, up to a maximum of Z. If you have a medium shield equipped, you gain +1 Dodge AC for every Y points of Parry, up to a maximum of Z. You do not get any Parry AC bonuses for using a tower shield.
(( Where Y > X ))
Name of Feat: Shield Style: Wall
Requirements: Shield Proficiency, Base Attack Bonus +6 or better
Effect: You have mastered the art of absorbing blows with the parts of the shield not directly over your arm, and flexing your arm to cushion the impact. When you have a medium shield equipped, you gain X% physical damage immunity. When you have a tower shield equipped, you gain Y% physical damage immunity. You do not gain any damage immunity for using a light shield.
((Where Y > X ))
Note that a parry build who can overcome the -2 penalty of the medium shield and has sufficiently high parry skill can take both feats and while using a medium shield, benefit from both
Another thought that just occurred to me is that the second feat could have the amount of damage immunity based upon the character's Discipline skill. Such as with a medium shield the character gains 1% damage immunity for every Y points of Discipline, up to a maximum of Z, and using a tower shield gains 3% damage immunity plus 1% of damage immunity for every X points of Discipline, up to a maximum of Z+4(ish), where Y > X. This would result in the damage immunity feat having the same amount of feat and skill and gear investment as Parry. Or something. Point being that damage immunity to be based on Discipline skill, and it being easier to get higher immunity and at lower levels with a tower than with a medium.
The two feats together would make light shields, "bucklers", popular with "fencing" Parry builds who are willing to forgo the extra attack of two weapons in favour of no attack penalty, without loosing out on AC, Tower Shields would still be the way to go for non-parry builds, and medium shields might become popular with those willing and able to invest in both Parry and Discipline.
Your character is also part rogue there Night. Lol
And the feat would require a pure fighter
A pure fighter went have that high. Even if say my tiefling fighter level , 15 that's 5 from levels 4 from dex that's only 9 reflex 10 with luck of hero's and the feat would only give him another 2 from the shield reflex feat. Giving a 12 reflex. Let's add enchanted gear. +1 from boots +2 from armor. Thanks 15 reflex before spell craft so for a pure fighter the feat is useful fir any fighter rogue silt.. no need
Though I an curious why would it give fort?
I think this is going about the wrong way. Wrong focus. Shield users don't need more AC. (Sure, small shield users could use some to compensate, that'd be cool. But only to a maximum of what's achieved with a tower, and only after taking feats for it).
But we do not need to be adding AC to shield users. Some of the stuff presented here is crazy high. Like, literally a feat for +5 more AC than what a shield could have already been giving? Plz no! We don't need to be adding new sources of large amounts of AC to the server balance in general. Those are huge changes that impact literally everyone.
Try to look at other bonuses, instead. Maybe the larger the shield, it comes with a larger discipline bonus. Maybe even a concentration bonus, to help against antagonizes (Though Divine Spellcasters would be very happy). Damage immunity is probably a little too much. AC is definitely a little too much. I personally like discipline bonuses with shields (Which can be as easy as adjusting lootbin items, or as hard as feats), because it gives you a more defensive umpf against knockdowns and disarms-- whereas the two-hander is going to be getting advantages in disarming due to size category. So it's like a flip-flop-- only, the defensive side also gets bonuses against KD.
I think this is going about the wrong way. Wrong focus. Shield users don't need more AC. (Sure, small shield users could use some to compensate, that'd be cool. But only to a maximum of what's achieved with a tower, and only after taking feats for it).
But we do not need to be adding AC to shield users. Some of the stuff presented here is crazy high. Like, literally a feat for +5 more AC than what a shield could have already been giving? Plz no! We don't need to be adding new sources of large amounts of AC to the server balance in general. Those are huge changes that impact literally everyone.
Try to look at other bonuses, instead. Maybe the larger the shield, it comes with a larger discipline bonus. Maybe even a concentration bonus, to help against antagonizes (Though Divine Spellcasters would be very happy). Damage immunity is probably a little too much. AC is definitely a little too much. I personally like discipline bonuses with shields (Which can be as easy as adjusting lootbin items, or as hard as feats), because it gives you a more defensive umpf against knockdowns and disarms-- whereas the two-hander is going to be getting advantages in disarming due to size category. So it's like a flip-flop-- only, the defensive side also gets bonuses against KD.
Here's an idea: Make light and medium shields, which are light-weight enough to move around, gain limited benefit from parry skill, but make large, bulky tower shields remain as they are.
No new feats. No changes to skills. Just an adjustment to how parry works.
If you have Improved Parry and a Light shield equipped (which imposes a -1 parry penalty), you gain +1 dodge AC for every 6 points of Parry, to a max of +4.
If you have Improved Parry and a Medium shield equipped (which imposes a -2 parry penalty), you gain +1 dodge AC for every 7 points of Parry, to a max of +4.
Numbers subject to change by dev team of course.
No change to tower shields, they remain the big dumb block of wood of choice for the big dumb blocker.
This would make light and medium shields a viable option for those looking to build a defense focused character who's willing to loose a little in offense and spend the skill points and feats
Thoughts? Night of Reod?
Glad you like the concept, but I disagree with your statement of +2 and +1 max. I think that if someone actively trains with them, they should get better defense without resorting to magic than someone with two weapons. I keep repeating myself, I know, but I think choosing between defense and offense should be a thing here, instead of certain builds having the best possible of both. A +4 max would only give a medium shield user the same ac as a two weapon user, but then at least enchantment would make for a better ac in exchange for the loss of offense, instead of needing enchantment just to be on par.
All good feedback! Keep it coming!
Also:
Shield Bash
Sacrifice your atracks for the round for the chance of a strike with a daze effect.
Night of Reod,
If we didn't have so many feats, for example, a bonus feat for every single level for fighters on top of one per three levels, I would say that the feat investment for two weapon users to achieve +7 ac is daunting. But, since we do, it's not.
You can keep your systems and talk of shields with DR (SO WHAT? GET AN ADAMANTINE CHAIN SHIRT!) and keep your talk of dispellable temporary effects, the REAL question is, is this a roleplay server? If so, how are we to roleplay that the guy with a dagger in his left hand is able to block more blows than the guy with the giant piece of steel covering half his body? Not to mention, as someone else pointed out, apparently deflecting arrows with that dagger better than the guy with the huge shield does?
So, I had a big ol brainstorm with Flattened Fifth and we've come up with some stuff that might be groovy!
Obviously these are just general and totally up for discussion, modification, etc.
Skilled Blocking:
A talented shield user knows how and when to use even a small shield to good effect
Grants a bonus to AC based on [Skill] up to the point of a small or large shield being as effective as a tower shield
Shield Angling:
A devotee of the shield can lessen the power of a blow, even if it does pass his guard
Grants a damage a immunity (Physical) to a shield user based on that shields base AC
5% for small, 10% for large and 15% for Tower
Shield Wall:
You have learned to fight with a shield in a coordinated group with other, trained individuals.
For each other friendly player within X ft who also has the Shield Wall feat, you gain +1 Dodge AC Up to a cap of Y.
Mystic Block:
You have honed your skills to the point where you may anticipate and intercept incoming offensive, targeted spells
You gain a Spell Resistance equal to 10+3 for every base point of AC of your shield.
13 for small, 16 for large and 19 for Tower
Stoic Shield I, II and III
Your hard work and practice has paid off, making you harder to strike with your shield in hand.
Grants +1 AC for each level, taken to a maximum of [Skill]/10 Or +3 AC, whichever is lowest.
I thought [Skill] Could possibly be discipline, and all of these feats would need us to work out requirements of level, class, and stats.
So, what do y'all think?