Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist

Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on October 31, 2006, 05:01:36 AM

Title: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on October 31, 2006, 05:01:36 AM
An important part of assuring balance throughout the mod is that the creatures we've set up actually work as intended. There's no better witness to this, however, than you, the players. And likely, there's no one who knows better when something isn't living up to the challenge it suggests. So I put forward this thread to encourage you all to post what lackings you encounter here, as well as suggestions to how we could make things better and the challenges more balances and interesting.

This could be things like creatures using spells redundantly or inefficiently, spells that even harm themselves - like undeads using healing - but also inefficient behavior or tactics.

It might seem as a bit of a paradox that you should help us making things harder for yourself, but in the end, it'll make the entire experience more balanced and even for all - and make the impact we want to give with this server stand clearer. So please post away... :)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Cloaked_Fury on November 02, 2006, 02:28:33 PM
From the Summit to the Ice Palace, the Jack Frosts and the Mistinus (sp) fight amongst themselves when you encounter them.  I believe the reason for this is the Jack Frosts' cone of cold.  The Mistinus don't seem to have a resistance to it so it hurts them when Jacks fire their spells off at the players.  In return you have a Mistinu that's very angry at the Jack.  My suggestion is take out the Mistinus (not sure why they're even there, understand though elements play a big part of the ravenloft setting, but maybe an air map for the air folk and keep the cold folk on the cold map) or give them resistance to cold above the weather damage.

The Golems in the ice palace, not sure about this one, but we had someone with a +2 sword and they couldn't damage them. Something we're missing about these guys?

The areas designed for mid-levels (or rather the creatures in certain areas) are not giving xp to the mid levels.  So there is a gap between high level creatures and low level creatures.  One of my characters is level 10 and I can't find anything that's worth a damn xp wise (obviously not my motivation for being here but something I've noted) that's intended for his level.  I instead visit the areas meant for 15+ characters when PVM'ing.  And come to mention it, all his xp from level 8 to level 10 was rp/dm xp.  So areas in the Spider Cave, Werewolf Den, Sullen Forest, Abandoned Farmhouse, and various road encounters should have their xp gain reviewed for their difficulty.  Sensitive suggestion, I know, but low level and post 15 characters seem to have the right mix of difficulty and award setting - even if high level areas are currently scarce.

Maybe on purpose, and certainly funny as hell, but every monster enjoys attacking the local wildlife.  Can't tell you how many times I've seen players running from werewolves to see the creature instead make a sharp right and chase after a poor little mink.   :lol:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Thestral on November 02, 2006, 03:12:08 PM
Mink taste good. That's why. Actually I have noticed this problem, as well as the mid level xp problem. I still make decent progress due to RP and DM bonks but when I spend 30 minutes organizing a player event of some sort and taking care of a problem as an interactive RP group.. sometimes PVM xp is nice too  :twisted:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Heretic on November 02, 2006, 03:17:29 PM
..I got no real reason to dislike these creatures other than the fact they annoy the crap out of me (as player) and those are the:

 :arrow:Skeletons that spam fireballs with spears (Village of Barovia crypts). I think there could be a better combination of monsters there, some ''mind'' bugging monster coupled with those Warrior skeletons to WHACK you when dizzy or stunned. Add in some skeletal devourers and other ''death'' gazers in there.

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on November 02, 2006, 05:11:38 PM
-The Golems in the Ice Palace will attack each other if one is caught in the other's Cone of Cold.
-Barovia Crypts: In one of the rooms, can't pinpoint which, there is a spawn of Argarats/Ghasts that spawn by traps and everytime I've been there, they triggered them and it killed most of them.
-Lich Tower: The big middle room lags the area a lot. Either remove some VFX from there or remove some monsters and add some tougher ones instead.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Dreaderick on November 03, 2006, 10:22:47 AM
The Bakna Rahan (or however you write it) in the cave next to the Vistani camp actually teleport next to a pc before opening fire with their bows. So every attack by them gives the player an attack of opportunity, making them very easy to kill.

In the Barovia crypt:
Sometimes a grave ooze appears when you pass a corpse. This ooze is promtly attacked by ghouls/wights.
Cornugons sometimes keep casting animate dead, summoning a skeleton warrior and unsummoning the previous one.
Also, Cornugons seem to have no discipline since they go down at every knockdown that hits them.
The Eyires (with the flaming whips) first cast detect invisibility when attacked or spotting an intruder. This makes no sense since they already detect a target.

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: jimkaf on November 07, 2006, 05:00:20 PM
Sometimes Gilos requires +3 weapon to hit. I don't know if this is a bug or just the highest spawn...
The issue also with the bakhna rakhna is that they have fancy arrows and instead of using them at a range they stupidly teleport :p
Zombies and skellies fight oozes all the time, and it's fun :p
The room EO mentioned is the first on your right, when you enter the Barovian crypts via the door in front and right at cemetary.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nefensis on November 07, 2006, 06:52:46 PM
There is a room in the crypt of barovia where the monsters will explode on the trap, first floor

Some of the skeletons that are suppposed to spawn in the kitchen of the abandonned farm house get stuck behind placables and are hard to get at in parties.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Aldarris on November 21, 2006, 09:52:44 PM
There's always one tiny little dire spiderling that gets stuck between three webs in the spider cave...poor little guy.  He deserves a mention too.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Cloaked_Fury on November 22, 2006, 03:30:10 AM
Few beetle grubs get stuck in a similar way when they spawn, I think their smaller size let's them spawn in between objects or between objects and walls, etc.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on November 22, 2006, 06:40:25 AM
Thanks for all the great feedback, I'll try to get around most things.

And keep it coming... :)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ravenous on November 22, 2006, 10:53:00 AM
I will second difficulty and monsters..
Werewolves, especially Lowland and Mountain types are extremely dangerous but hardly gives any xp at all. I would place these in the mid-lvl ranges so up their CR a bit ;)
The mummy priest uses healing on himself...(Might be fixed)
The Broken Ones can cast spells while shapechanged(Wild Shape), actually all monsters that can shapechange and cast can do this. But the Broken Ones are the ones i´ve seen do it.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Mordred on November 22, 2006, 04:10:24 PM
The weak spawn of the nerul cultists in the Grove north of Vallaki, the skeleton guardian (the small one) there drinks potions when badly injured.  Kills himself in the process.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nefensis on November 22, 2006, 08:33:05 PM
The weak spawn of the nerul cultists in the Grove north of Vallaki, the skeleton guardian (the small one) there drinks potions when badly injured.  Kills himself in the process.

HAHAHAHA
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on November 28, 2006, 01:51:28 PM
the ooze below the valiki temple are still invisble and a few mainly the ones in the back corner where children zombies spawn do not move to attack and just sit there till you do attack them...must be lazy.. :shock:

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ravenous on November 30, 2006, 05:36:18 PM
Those are actually stuck there.. Try to move close to that wall and it might happen to you to. Same in all those rooms that look alike :(
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on November 30, 2006, 08:47:44 PM
Those are actually stuck there.. Try to move close to that wall and it might happen to you to. Same in all those rooms that look alike :(


ahhh ok...


well uh what about them all being invisible?...is that new for CEP2?...cause its been like that since we changed over
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on November 30, 2006, 09:40:21 PM
It's likely a bug on your end, I see everything down there just fine.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on December 01, 2006, 03:09:47 AM
The oozes are also invisible to me... in addition cloaks, robes, and dresses occasionally go invisible too as well as half of the giant spider's legs.  :?

Edit: While they're invis,(Actually, see though would be a better term) I can still target them normally, so It's just a graphical thing I've grown accustome to.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nefensis on December 01, 2006, 07:57:44 AM
dunno if others get that too but cloak bought at the store look all metalic, so does the head of the thouls?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on December 01, 2006, 02:39:38 PM
dunno if others get that too but cloak bought at the store look all metalic, so does the head of the thouls?

Not here... Thoulls and cloaks (when they're not invisibile) look normal.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on December 01, 2006, 03:50:31 PM
Those are CEP texture bugs. Only way I know of to fix it is to quit the game and reload.  :?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nightmare on February 15, 2007, 07:14:46 PM
Meh, oozes all have the 'Transparent' special ability, meaning you can run into them and get engulfed if they are larger than you... Gelatinous cubes anyone?

Nightmare Spinner,
You see your own weakness in my eyes...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 15, 2007, 07:28:53 PM
Meh, oozes all have the 'Transparent' special ability, meaning you can run into them and get engulfed if they are larger than you... Gelatinous cubes anyone?

Nightmare Spinner,
You see your own weakness in my eyes...

I don't understand, is this not working, or do they not have it? I only recall giving gelatinous cubes an engulfing ability (requires a special script).
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nefensis on February 15, 2007, 11:35:35 PM
the cubes DO have the engluf function not the oozes
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nightmare on February 17, 2007, 08:09:21 PM
I know next to nothing about scripting, I just know alot about PnP...
And my bad, its only the Cube that has engulf, but All oozes, (except for black pudding, and Ochre jelly) Have transparency, or should.
Since, face it, your not going to see a giant wad of jello until its digesting you.

Nightmare Spinner,
You see your own weakness in my eyes...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ravenous on February 17, 2007, 08:32:40 PM
Well.. Alot of the slimy puddles of Jello here are a bit odd in the coloring...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 17, 2007, 09:47:49 PM
Well.. Alot of the slimy puddles of Jello here are a bit odd in the coloring...
you have to turn off texture mapping...or turn it on, I can't remember which :P
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Mcskinns on February 17, 2007, 10:35:41 PM
I know next to nothing about scripting, I just know alot about PnP...
And my bad, its only the Cube that has engulf, but All oozes, (except for black pudding, and Ochre jelly) Have transparency, or should.
Since, face it, your not going to see a giant wad of jello until its digesting you.

thats it! give them HiPS
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nightmare on February 18, 2007, 12:00:31 AM
That would lead to Non-intelligent beasts HIPS spamming...
Transparency is a set Spot DC not modified by Hide, MS, or DEX. For most things it is set to 15, although it is probably possible to change this. Ah well. They still have the vital part... Engulf. (cubes that is)

Nightmare Spinner,
You see your own weakness in my eyes...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Orchson on February 18, 2007, 12:34:28 AM
I have no problem seeing the oozes.
Granted, they have almost the same colour as the floor, and they're not really standing out... But I can see them fine.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nefensis on February 18, 2007, 10:24:38 AM
The shades in Zalaph's lair are a PAIN with them hips. They wiped a huge group of us last summer, high levels too. We just stood there while they killed us, lol it was.. pathetic
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nightmare on February 18, 2007, 10:34:11 AM
The answer to HIPS spammers is to drop meteor swarms on the area, making them run or die.
Even if your team is there, that just means more loot for you!

Nightmare Spinner,
You see your own weakness in my eyes...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Heretic on February 18, 2007, 12:40:32 PM
The shades in Zalaph's lair are a PAIN with them hips. They wiped a huge group of us last summer, high levels too. We just stood there while they killed us, lol it was.. pathetic

A paladin rips through that place like through butter.

A paladin and a high level Cleric can kill Zelaph. Going there with lag isn't a bright idea thou.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Orchson on February 18, 2007, 12:43:02 PM
Or, get some caltrops. Chuck them on your own feet. Make sure to have whirlwind attack, then just wait. As soon as the HIPS spammer starts getting the blue digits over his head showing damage close to you, whirlwind attack. Problem solved. And for those thinking it's an exploit, it's not. Just imagine the caltrops moving about when the HIPS spammer moves through them. The problem is of course if he/she has damage resist, then the digits won't show.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ripkill on February 18, 2007, 01:03:02 PM
AE spells would work...  a pet and/or summoned creatures will auto-agro, too.  Had a brown bear without a body attack me once on my wizard when I was 3rd...  it ate my summoned stuff and I couldn't target it.  Came back after death and the DM made it visible for me...  it died.  Anyways, the same tactics should work on HIP mobs, I would think.  Just keep clicking the "attack nearest" command on the pets.  Problem is when the pets/summoned stuff get eaten.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: jimkaf on February 18, 2007, 01:06:25 PM
Since to propose solutions doesn't create a problem (hopefully, since I see many here)... My answer to HIPS spammers is Acid Sheath... Kills those buggers, works like a charm ;)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ripkill on February 18, 2007, 01:40:39 PM
Ooo, yeah, forgot about the different DS spells.  Good one.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 18, 2007, 02:24:45 PM
please take the counter-HiPS tactics to another thread. This thread is for bug reports on creatures.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 18, 2007, 03:55:15 PM
ok not sure if this is erroneous script or something but i turned undead just an hour or so ago with drudoc my haflnig priest and...(Watches two skeletons archers duke it out) they had fear in effect from the turning but heck if i know what went wrong there  :shock: course teh fear wears off adn...(gets crticed by both bam dead)  :lol: OOC and IC was like WTF?..

oh and in regards to the wraith spiders there undead right?..so how come dragrins bone rattle gloves dont do the extra damgage there suppposed to with facing undead?...oh and richards sword too? maybe checking there settings whatever thats tied to perhaps?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: buggers on February 23, 2007, 02:22:05 AM
shades/shadows are vulnerable to knockdown, haven't checked ghosts/wraiths/spectres but it's likely they may be as well.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Isu on February 23, 2007, 03:36:00 AM
Jack Frosts in the ice-palace and around are still attacking each other and other icy creatures as well.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Rex on February 25, 2007, 03:36:55 AM
PC Fighters, Barbarians, and Weapon Masters.

The NPC's seem to be just fine and uberly lethal, especially the elites with their +2 and or better weaponry.

On a serious note though.  Barovian Soldiers in the Western Outskirts.  No Missile Weapons.  People are nuking them for XP.

~Rex  :evil:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Orchson on February 25, 2007, 09:08:35 AM
Quote
oh and in regards to the wraith spiders there undead right?..so how come dragrins bone rattle gloves dont do the extra damgage there suppposed to with facing undead?...oh and richards sword too? maybe checking there settings whatever thats tied to perhaps?

(Actually, I think that's because wraith spiders are only part undead, kinda lika Pale Master, and you don't get the bonus vs them either)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 25, 2007, 09:57:47 AM
Quote
oh and in regards to the wraith spiders there undead right?..so how come dragrins bone rattle gloves dont do the extra damgage there suppposed to with facing undead?...oh and richards sword too? maybe checking there settings whatever thats tied to perhaps?

(Actually, I think that's because wraith spiders are only part undead, kinda lika Pale Master, and you don't get the bonus vs them either)

hmmm i had thought there undead anyone can figure this out cause i lack the books at the moment to confirm/deny this thought

and IF they were undead yeah i would get the bonus since both items are geared towards hurting undead
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on February 25, 2007, 06:05:54 PM
Last time I fought the wraith spiders, the holy gavel (extra damage and enhancement bonus vs. undead) functioned properly...  Granted that was a while ago.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: buggers on March 01, 2007, 04:16:26 AM
when encountering spawns of jack frosts/mihstus, those frosts in the backrow usually sit back and spam a cold cone. Often times it results in them fighting each other.

Also the mihstus could probably use some cold resist as more often than not the jack frosts just kill them with the constant cold cone spamming.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on March 01, 2007, 01:34:22 PM
hmm, maybe the spawn locations should be rearranged so the two types don't spawn near each other. ;)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: hi-di-ho on March 01, 2007, 10:54:10 PM
today I just noticed...

are snakes supposed to be outside in winter?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on March 01, 2007, 11:05:24 PM
Barovian snakes ain't no sissy snakes. They are tough as nail.

On a related note, there is a problem in the new Crypts dungeon. In the southernmost room on the first level, there are gargoyles spawning and those gargoyles are hostile to the critters, so they start fighting each other.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Helaman on March 02, 2007, 01:24:36 AM
Barovian snakes ain't no sissy snakes. They are tough as nail.

On a related note, there is a problem in the new Crypts dungeon. In the southernmost room on the first level, there are gargoyles spawning and those gargoyles are hostile to the critters, so they start fighting each other.

What? Under the Church outside Valliki?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: engelfire on March 02, 2007, 02:01:15 AM
not there Helaman, go explore  ;)

also in the new place the damn Trilochs in the second floor are INSANE !! so far only mage can beat those, been witnessing some horrible deaths of friends on those creatures

imp invis -> death howl -> imp invis -> death howl -> imp invis ........ you see the pattern ?  :P uber nastyness. though thats a good example to bring that mage along to kill em *wink wink, nudge nudge*
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Helaman on March 02, 2007, 02:38:42 AM
not there Helaman, go explore  ;)

also in the new place the damn Trilochs in the second floor are INSANE !! so far only mage can beat those, been witnessing some horrible deaths of friends on those creatures

imp invis -> death howl -> imp invis -> death howl -> imp invis ........ you see the pattern ?  :P uber nastyness. though thats a good example to bring that mage along to kill em *wink wink, nudge nudge*

If you can barely walk out of there and others far more experienced than I are dying horrible deaths then I'll pass on the exploring around there... :D
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on March 02, 2007, 07:51:33 PM
Barovian snakes ain't no sissy snakes. They are tough as nail.

On a related note, there is a problem in the new Crypts dungeon. In the southernmost room on the first level, there are gargoyles spawning and those gargoyles are hostile to the critters, so they start fighting each other.
Did I use the wrong statue placeables?  :oops: :oops: :oops:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Thestral on April 02, 2007, 08:49:47 AM
Barovian snakes ain't no sissy snakes. They are tough as nail.

On a related note, there is a problem in the new Crypts dungeon. In the southernmost room on the first level, there are gargoyles spawning and those gargoyles are hostile to the critters, so they start fighting each other.

In Barovia, snake eats you!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nefensis on April 02, 2007, 09:48:13 AM
Uhg when you use Greater Planar binding, the greater Slaad is absolutly useless due to its short duration, he spends half his time casting improve invisibility on himself rather than fighting the beasties that wants to eat Kukri
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on May 02, 2007, 05:59:28 AM
Not sure if this is the place for it... but....


Various oozes aren't immune to critical hits.

Shadow Demon's are healed by a paladin's lay on hands instead of hurt.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Crule on May 02, 2007, 08:29:08 AM
In Barovia, snake eats you!

Reading the Slashdot again, Mr Thestral?    Where's the obligatory reference to a Beowulf Cluster of Snakes?   (Or since it's D&D, we could have Beowulf, holding a cluster of snakes)

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on May 02, 2007, 01:49:37 PM
Not sure if this is the place for it... but....


Various oozes aren't immune to critical hits.

Shadow Demon's are healed by a paladin's lay on hands instead of hurt.
Shadow Demons are outsiders, not undead, so healing would work normally. :P EDIT: To clarify, this isn't a bug. Shadow Demons are supposed to be outsiders, so this isn't a bug at all. ;)

I'll check the oozes' creature properties.


In Barovia, snake eats you!

Reading the Slashdot again, Mr Thestral?    Where's the obligatory reference to a Beowulf Cluster of Snakes?   (Or since it's D&D, we could have Beowulf, holding a cluster of snakes)


Dunno 'bout Slashdot, but Thestral's comment seems to be a play on Yakov Smirnoff's old comedy routine ("In Soviet Russia, car drives you!")  ;)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Thestral on May 02, 2007, 02:14:52 PM
Ahhh, Blue is the amazing Mr. Trivia man, spot on. :D
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Crule on May 02, 2007, 02:17:29 PM

In Barovia, snake eats you!
Dunno 'bout Slashdot, but Thestral's comment seems to be a play on Yakov Smirnoff's old comedy routine ("In Soviet Russia, car drives you!")  ;)

Which is the same source of the Slashdot reference.....(Note to self: Thestral and Blue do not read Slashdot).
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nefensis on May 02, 2007, 02:48:09 PM
the ghosts and the spiders near the monastery dont act normal, they just stand there at the corner of the room rather attacking
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on May 02, 2007, 03:44:40 PM
In the hag area to the west of Barovia.... There is a rock near the back of the area that one enemy always spawns in, and as such is trapped.   On high spawns a Berserker gets pinned there, and on low spawns its instead a darkling.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on May 02, 2007, 04:01:59 PM
In the hag area to the west of Barovia.... There is a rock near the back of the area that one enemy always spawns in, and as such is trapped.   On high spawns a Berserker gets pinned there, and on low spawns its instead a darkling.
can you screenshot it? need to know exactly where I need to make changes on the map ;)



In Barovia, snake eats you!
Dunno 'bout Slashdot, but Thestral's comment seems to be a play on Yakov Smirnoff's old comedy routine ("In Soviet Russia, car drives you!")  ;)

Which is the same source of the Slashdot reference.....(Note to self: Thestral and Blue do not read Slashdot).
In Soviet Russia, Slashdot reads you!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Thestral on May 02, 2007, 04:18:18 PM
In Barovia... wait Slashdot? Sounds like a spell... Burn HIM!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on May 02, 2007, 07:31:18 PM
Hope I did this right....

(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m163/Demi-Lich/HagRock.jpg)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on May 02, 2007, 07:42:29 PM
Excellent. That's a placeable boulder, easy enough to move.  :D
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ravenous on May 03, 2007, 07:29:32 AM
Hmm... In the silver mines third lvl there are always spiders getting stuck behind the webs in the corners.. Hehe, spiders getting stuck in their own webs :lol:
and some behind boulders in the big webby room..
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on May 05, 2007, 04:21:22 PM
Jack Frosts still anger eachother with their cone of colds.   Also... They can be crit. :shock:


Is there anyway to make Ice Mummies use their stronger spells first?  They usually spam ice dagger and ray of frost's even when they still have ice storm to use.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on May 05, 2007, 05:08:45 PM
Jack Frosts still anger eachother with their cone of colds.   Also... They can be crit. :shock:
the cone of cold thing is due to AOEs and full pvp settings...the crits are normal. Jack Frosts are fey, which can take critical hits. Stop assuming everything is undead  :lol:


Quote
Is there anyway to make Ice Mummies use their stronger spells first?  They usually spam ice dagger and ray of frost's even when they still have ice storm to use.

would require some AI rescripting, which is not my area. I'll check to make sure they're using the correct scripts, at least.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on May 05, 2007, 06:32:13 PM
Jack Frosts still anger eachother with their cone of colds.   Also... They can be crit. :shock:
the cone of cold thing is due to AOEs and full pvp settings...the crits are normal. Jack Frosts are fey, which can take critical hits. Stop assuming everything is undead  :lol:

Damn non-undead things...

Why do they have 50% concealment by the way?  Just for balance issues? (looked em up an didn't see anything about concealment for them in the denizens of dread)



Anyhoo, badgers can be crit.  Best fix that asap. :P
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on May 05, 2007, 06:40:39 PM
Gilos tends to get raped while he's busy buffing.

Is there any chance that his spells could be cut down to just essentials? I'm thinking just one or two castings of Holy sword and nothing else.





Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Negnar on May 05, 2007, 07:02:21 PM
Gilos tends to get raped while he's busy buffing.

Is there any chance that his spells could be cut down to just essentials? I'm thinking just one or two castings of Holy sword and nothing else.

Somthing i've been meaning to mention as well, should have him use his arura then cast holy sword and then charge, would certainly make him less of a "lets go do Gilos?" kinda place
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: - carrion - on May 07, 2007, 03:45:04 AM
In the Barovian Mausoleum several creatures seem to be really tired:

Bodaks:  Out of six Bodak one attacked me, the others prefered a spanking
Morghs:  Morghs were even lazier, they didn't strike back at all

The Ghouls, Ghasts and Agarats seemed fine though.

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Heretic on May 07, 2007, 03:51:21 AM
In the Barovian Mausoleum several creatures seem to be really tired:

Bodaks:  Out of six Bodak one attacked me, the others prefered a spanking
Morghs:  Morghs were even lazier, they didn't strike back at all

The Ghouls, Ghasts and Agarats seemed fine though.



I notice this as well when Lag is there, other than that, said combination is really deadly; however what I'd do to be Evil, is slide some Bone Bats in the Mix.  ;) That Might stop ninja lootin'! Or will it!!?

Mouahahaha! Mouhahaha!  :P
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: - carrion - on May 08, 2007, 07:02:37 AM
Alright ... about half the creatures on the server seem to be bugged.
I checked in multiple areas and everywhere it's the same:

Creatures run to attack you, then about 50 % of them attack for 2 or 3 rounds, then
stand still and stare at you lobotomized.
The other 50 % don't even bother to try to attack, or just stop short in their tracks
once they reach you.

Well either Neg, Frieda and all the others to whom this has happened now smell really
bad or it's a serious bug.

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on May 08, 2007, 11:53:03 AM
you sure it's not just lag-induced?  :shock:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: - carrion - on May 08, 2007, 11:59:32 AM
I thought so at first, but my response time was instantenous.

The spawns just ceased to move.

Happened to me in the following areas:

Barovian Mausoleum
Forest Fane
Ivlis Marches
Svalich Road - Crossroads
Svalich Road - Bridge over the river Ivlis
Crypts under the Sanctuary of Eternal Dawn

and two more areas which names I don't know right now.

I could literaly walk amongst some of the creatures without using stealth at all.

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: engelfire on May 08, 2007, 12:12:03 PM
happened to me at vamps too, i could shake hands with blasphemes and wights *high five!*

they just stood there getting the spanking
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: DarkWyvern on May 08, 2007, 12:15:27 PM
I've seen it before as well.. with Thouls and such. Its like when you are fighting a few of them, the others just stick to their random walk script as if you just aren't there. Its like they can't see you or something. My guess is that its a bug on their end. Like, when you log into an area and sometimes something is invis and the only way to find it is to Tab to see its name, but you are unable to target. Same with the Spawns...*shrugs* My theory at least
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Heretic on May 08, 2007, 12:20:24 PM
Must be because Hips not workin'!11!!


And you know that Hips dont lie!  :rimshot:












 :ontome:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Thestral on May 08, 2007, 12:33:53 PM
Eraldur is getting the kill button next time I see him in game for that....  ;)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Negnar on May 08, 2007, 02:20:04 PM
Eraldur is getting the kill button next time I see him in game for that....  ;)

Prove it


Anyway what kinda creatures it is that do not attack ssems to differ at times, can't seem to find a pattern if there is one
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on May 08, 2007, 03:24:18 PM
Reason for the creatures not fighting back was due to a sort of glitch in last patch... Have uploaded fix update that will be loaded within minutes...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on May 08, 2007, 11:07:23 PM
Some ghouls in the Baro crypts decide to stay in stealth mode and walk toward the people attacking em.  I'd say on average 50% run at their enemies while the rest try to be stealthy. (and fail miserably)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ravenous on May 09, 2007, 11:18:55 AM
The fact that some critters stealth is a nice touch now though :D
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on May 09, 2007, 03:44:54 PM
I'll admit, was a nice touch when I got jumped by a stealth werewolf.

However, the ghouls that can be easily spotted by my 0 spot, 0 listen character should probably just forget trying to be sneaky.  :P


Edit: Also, the creatures continue to try and sneak even when they're being hit by ranged weapons and spells and such.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on May 09, 2007, 04:08:37 PM
maybe i should just boost the ghouls' hide and m/s skills! :evillol:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ravenous on May 10, 2007, 08:17:17 AM
maybe i should just boost the ghouls' hide and m/s skills! :evillol:

Whatever rocks your boat(or however its said) :twisted:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on May 10, 2007, 09:09:04 AM
By the newest updates to the AI, creatures will enter sneak mode if hearing commotion nearby (yet not spotting enemy) and their Hide/MS is above 10, otherwise they'll enter search mode. Ghouls must have just above that, but not by much, since they are so easily detected. Could adjust the values I guess, but improving on their code in other ways anyway.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Heretic on May 10, 2007, 11:30:55 AM
By the newest updates to the AI, creatures will enter sneak mode if hearing commotion nearby (not spotting enemy) and their Hide/MS is above 10. Ghouls must have just above that, but not by much, since they are so easily detected. Could adjust the values I guess, but improving on their code in other ways anyway.

AI as per the newest update has greatly improved encounters, I've noticed much smarter creatures and Ghouls being better spotters than used to be; also the general response from monsters upon seeing PC's has improved, being much quicker than it was.

I'll add more as I dungeon more.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ravenous on May 10, 2007, 11:46:14 AM
That cleric in the wolf caves was/is close to impossible now.. Much improved.. One thing that was quite odd though was that her spells refreshed themselves very rapidly.. Didnt take more than 3 minutes before she was fully healed and had all her spells back.. Would think that things would be the same for all casting creatures, and that is just way to fast..
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on May 10, 2007, 11:54:47 AM
That cleric in the wolf caves was/is close to impossible now.. Much improved.. One thing that was quite odd though was that her spells refreshed themselves very rapidly.. Didnt take more than 3 minutes before she was fully healed and had all her spells back.. Would think that things would be the same for all casting creatures, and that is just way to fast..

Well, a new feature in the system has it so that if a player repeatedly enters an area, fights and get wounded, then exits again to regenerate only to enter again and repeat this manoeuvre shamelessly persistent, the creatures will restore health and spells between each fight... much seeming like a DM was standing there playing tricks with the player :P

Anyway, let's hear more... ;)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Heretic on May 10, 2007, 12:42:45 PM
One Bodak seemed to n00b me, didn't death gaze attack me on close range, stopped twice during a fight for almost [less than] 1 second, but resumed almost immidiately, nothing like it as prior the fix, but I noticed a slight something from the response. Might be worth checking Bodaks.

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ravenous on May 10, 2007, 01:24:25 PM
That cleric in the wolf caves was/is close to impossible now.. Much improved.. One thing that was quite odd though was that her spells refreshed themselves very rapidly.. Didnt take more than 3 minutes before she was fully healed and had all her spells back.. Would think that things would be the same for all casting creatures, and that is just way to fast..

Well, a new feature in the system has it so that if a player repeatedly enters an area, fights and get wounded, then exits again to regenerate only to enter again and repeat this manoeuvre shamelessly persistent, the creatures will restore health and spells between each fight... much seeming like a DM was standing there playing tricks with the player :P

Anyway, let's hear more... ;)

So evil.. Ruins my hit and run tactics :lol:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on May 10, 2007, 03:24:45 PM
That cleric in the wolf caves was/is close to impossible now.. Much improved.. One thing that was quite odd though was that her spells refreshed themselves very rapidly.. Didnt take more than 3 minutes before she was fully healed and had all her spells back.. Would think that things would be the same for all casting creatures, and that is just way to fast..

Well, a new feature in the system has it so that if a player repeatedly enters an area, fights and get wounded, then exits again to regenerate only to enter again and repeat this manoeuvre shamelessly persistent, the creatures will restore health and spells between each fight... much seeming like a DM was standing there playing tricks with the player :P

Anyway, let's hear more... ;)

So evil.. Ruins my hit and run tactics :lol:


*grin* Tehee!  :twisted:

To the topic, I've noticed that some critters still sort of lock up and refuse to react to anything, but I'm trying to track down a pattern in this... Any experiences and observations on that field would be most helpful. Pay attention to wether it's a certain type of creature, a certain situation or something like that.

For the creatures seeming like doing nothing for short durations, like a few seconds, typically after casting a spell or using a special ability, it's not actually having any other effect that it looks a bit silly visually. I'll see if I can fix it, but I consider it minor.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on May 10, 2007, 04:15:35 PM
Assassin vines can be crit and can be poisoned.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ravenous on May 10, 2007, 04:23:59 PM
Quote
To the topic, I've noticed that some critters still sort of lock up and refuse to react to anything, but I'm trying to track down a pattern in this... Any experiences and observations on that field would be most helpful. Pay attention to wether it's a certain type of creature, a certain situation or something like that.

For the creatures seeming like doing nothing for short durations, like a few seconds, typically after casting a spell or using a special ability, it's not actually having any other effect that it looks a bit silly visually. I'll see if I can fix it, but I consider it minor.

Yeah, noticed it with shadows and scrags today.. At times they would just freeze for a second or two, allowing me to get in a sneak or two(where appropriate).. They would always resume what they were doing the next round though..
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on May 15, 2007, 08:00:23 PM
The Black Agnes in the Forest Fane map locked up when I last fought her.  Stood there for a good 3 rounds before my spider finally killed her.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on May 20, 2007, 12:49:51 AM
The Drowned Lady in the marshes is pathetic.  She needs to be buffed in basically every way in order to even come close to being an appropriate challenge as a "boss" of that area. (Personally, I think the hag is easier than a hypno snake.)


The black agnes in the Forest Fane map should probably have her weak healing spells removed.  She tends to cast them so idiotically that they usually end up getting her killed faster.  She often casts cure light wounds while in melee, and just ends up getting herself pounded, when she might be a danger if she just fought instead.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Teh Pez on May 25, 2007, 11:52:53 PM
I agree with catacomb.. the drowned lady is waaay to easy... i mean she dies in like two hits... all the random bugs and leeches that attack you are harder  :lol:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Elo-EF on July 26, 2007, 03:50:51 AM
Frequently, in fact I can't think of a time it hasn't happened, skeletal priests will stop mid fight and just stand there taking whatever you throw at them. Seems like the AI is buggy.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on July 26, 2007, 06:21:45 AM
Seems like almost any monster capable of casting will occasionally do that. Seen it happen to mummy priests too.  Usually when they're badly wounded, they'll start to cast a spell, but then abruptly stop before finishing and just stand there till they're killed.  Believe there was a bug in the AI like this a while ago too, so maybe it's just cropping up again?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on July 26, 2007, 08:36:28 AM
Seems like almost any monster capable of casting will occasionally do that. Seen it happen to mummy priests too.  Usually when they're badly wounded, they'll start to cast a spell, but then abruptly stop before finishing and just stand there till they're killed.  Believe there was a bug in the AI like this a while ago too, so maybe it's just cropping up again?

Can anyone tell if it's happening to non-undead as well? Have a creeping suspicion it's because they try to heal themselves.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Elo-EF on July 26, 2007, 08:43:15 AM
I may have seen it happen to a thuul shaman a couple of times, but it's been weeks since I went in that area.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nefensis on July 26, 2007, 08:50:07 AM
for some funny reason Bianca was seen casting spell. I couldnt see what she did but my chat log gave the msg *Bianca Zeklos cast unknowned spell* made me laugh. Does she has bard lvl or something?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on July 26, 2007, 05:41:30 PM
Oh, on the topic of weird casting..... I dominated a Vampire priest and then watched him kill himself by casting Cure Critical wounds on himself.  :?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: kenpen on July 26, 2007, 08:34:51 PM
Oh, on the topic of weird casting..... I dominated a Vampire priest and then watched him kill himself by casting Cure Critical wounds on himself.  :?

Brilliant!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on July 26, 2007, 08:57:39 PM
Oh, on the topic of weird casting..... I dominated a Vampire priest and then watched him kill himself by casting Cure Critical wounds on himself.  :?

Brilliant!

 :lol: agreed catacomb broke his brain  :lol:

and yeah i've seen this as well when i was fooling around with merigrin with an animate dead once with a skeleton priest
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Helaman on July 26, 2007, 10:33:31 PM
for some funny reason Bianca was seen casting spell. I couldnt see what she did but my chat log gave the msg *Bianca Zeklos cast unknowned spell* made me laugh. Does she has bard lvl or something?

I saw it too - though with Mariko... who doesn't know any better
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Heretic on August 04, 2007, 02:24:03 AM
Guard watchman.

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=7552.msg79486#msg79486
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Elo-EF on August 04, 2007, 02:29:24 AM
Forgot about this one, thanks for pointing it out Eraldur.

The guard that stands on the walls on the outskirts at night doesn't pull out a ranged weapon if you attack him. He just cycles between halberd and sword/shield until he dies. I figure that this isn't supposed to happen, because other guards pull out crossbows.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on October 31, 2007, 08:41:58 AM
Agarats in Baro Crypts.

They use their Howl 2-3 times before engaging, but the howl does nothing. (no save or any effect at all)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Kaspar on October 31, 2007, 05:07:35 PM
Doom bats. Their "Gaze" does absolutely nothing and each bat casts it two times before attacking. Useless if you ask me.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Heretic on October 31, 2007, 09:25:47 PM
Doom bats. Their "Gaze" does absolutely nothing and each bat casts it two times before attacking. Useless if you ask me.

Always wondered wth was that "gaze" anyways, like some sort of tease gaze.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on October 31, 2007, 10:45:13 PM
Both the doom bats' gaze and the agarats' howls cast the Doom spell as an effect, because that was the closest I could get them to their pnp abilities. I think after a certain level the Doom spell doesn't affect you, though. If I knew anything at all about scripting I'd fix it to do what they're supposed to do...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: ethinos on November 01, 2007, 12:20:16 AM
Both the doom bats' gaze and the agarats' howls cast the Doom spell as an effect,

Doom requires a target. Who are the bats targeting, if anyone?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on November 01, 2007, 04:06:59 AM
Both the doom bats' gaze and the agarats' howls cast the Doom spell as an effect,

Doom requires a target. Who are the bats targeting, if anyone?

Doom works on people of any level.  Likely the problem is what Ethinos mentioned.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Darkest-Wish on November 01, 2007, 09:36:07 AM
Also, I noticed. If you have for any reason a immumity against mind effects, you don't even make the save against Doom. So if I have Protection From Alignment, Clarity or mind blank casted on myself, The save against doom isn't even made by my character.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Knas on November 01, 2007, 10:53:31 AM
Quote
Doom
From NWNWiki
Jump to: navigation, search
Doom

Caster Level: Cleric 1

Innate Level: 1

School: Enchantment

Component(s): V, S

Range: Medium

Save: Will Negates

Spell Resistance: Yes

Immunity Type: Mind-Affecting

Area of Effect/Target: Single

Duration: 1 Turn / Level

Additional Counterspells: Bless

Description: The target creature receives a -2 modifier to all Attack rolls, magical damage, Saving throws, Ability checks and skill checks.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Kaspar on November 10, 2007, 04:03:39 AM
In the outskirts, by the well, there's a pack of deer. Obviously. Well there's one wee wittle deer that's up on a cliff out of reach and unrealisticly. Be nice if that was fixed.  ;)

Also, right as you enter the tunnels to the drain from the sewers, there's a piece of rubble floating in the air.

 :)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Catacomb on November 25, 2007, 01:27:51 PM
Mummy Priest


A fairly difficult monster all around, but for some reason it has Clarity as one of it's level 3 spells.  It promptly wastes that spell as soon as anyone enters the lower level of the crypts, so would it be possible to have Clarity switched to protection from elements or something?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Rex on December 04, 2007, 07:53:52 PM
Mummy Priest


A fairly difficult monster all around, but for some reason it has Clarity as one of it's level 3 spells.  It promptly wastes that spell as soon as anyone enters the lower level of the crypts, so would it be possible to have Clarity switched to protection from elements or something?

Switch it to Invisability Purge.

~Rex
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: kenpen on December 11, 2007, 12:00:45 AM
I noticed the monkey-demons beneath Ecaterine Husk seem to "fear" their own kind, somehow. Don't know if this is intentional or not, but thought it might be a bug.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Dreaderick on January 02, 2008, 11:09:29 AM
The Scrags have a messed up voice set when I last encountered them. It is kinda stuck in a loop, playing continuously until the scrag dies.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: ethinos on January 06, 2008, 10:41:00 PM
Most skeletons have some form of piercing and slashing resistance. I've noticed the skeleton archers still don't. Might want to check the skeleton warriors too.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: failed.bard on January 06, 2008, 10:57:59 PM
Most skeletons have some form of piercing and slashing resistance. I've noticed the skeleton archers still don't. Might want to check the skeleton warriors too.
Noooo.........


I am curious though, why Dribo's Kau Sin Ke, which has d8 bonus bludgeon damage, is considered entirely slashing damage when figuring out the damage done to a skeleton though.  Is that something to do with the way the NWN engine assigns damage?  I'm in the wrong thread if it's a weapon issue, and not one with the skeletons.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: ethinos on January 06, 2008, 11:48:59 PM
Yeah, its the NWN way of doing things. I think it needs Extra Damage: Bludgeoning to do Slashing and Bludgeoning damage but it still wouldn't differentiate the slashing from the bludgeoning, it would simply total them up and treat the damage as both types (like a halberd or scythe).
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Knas on January 11, 2008, 02:47:38 AM
The Scrags have a messed up voice set when I last encountered them. It is kinda stuck in a loop, playing continuously until the scrag dies.

This is done by lag, happens at several spots
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: ethinos on January 24, 2008, 03:17:52 AM
Most skeletons have some form of piercing and slashing resistance. I've noticed the skeleton archers still don't.

Bumpity bump. Skeleton archers are the only skeletons I've come across lately still missing the proper weapon damage immunities.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Helaman on January 24, 2008, 06:30:58 AM
And on one hand AMEN to that... I've nearly been fought to a standstill by skeletal warriors who are properly immune - those buggers go down hard!

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on January 24, 2008, 07:15:31 PM
Most skeletons have some form of piercing and slashing resistance. I've noticed the skeleton archers still don't.

Bumpity bump. Skeleton archers are the only skeletons I've come across lately still missing the proper weapon damage immunities.
since I've got to give them knuckles anyway, I'll go ahead and fix this at the same time :)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: ethinos on January 24, 2008, 07:20:02 PM
Er, I think there are two kinds of archers. The ones in the ML crypts, and then the ones found in places like the undead house and the barovian mausoleum. The ones in the ML crypts are the ones I'm specifically talking about, and they do have knuckles, but not the appropriate immunities. Not sure about the tougher kind, or the flaming versions.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on January 24, 2008, 07:25:41 PM
ah, well I'll look at all of them anyhow. :)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Helaman on January 24, 2008, 10:20:10 PM
Methinks the newb body count is about to rise... :)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: ethinos on January 25, 2008, 12:32:24 AM
Methinks the newb body count is about to rise... :)

Nah. The warrior skeletons are the newbie killers and they already have the immunities. :GRIM2A:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: DM Macabre on January 25, 2008, 03:37:05 AM
The snowgolems in the ice-queen's palace sometimes attack each other after they hit themselves with spells.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Delphinidae on January 27, 2008, 03:47:19 PM
The Osyluth's in the Barovia Crypts summon a skeleton chieftan, the skeleton takes two swings tops with his sword, gets unsummoned and the Osyluth summons another skeleton, the skeleton goes bye-bye, osyluth resummons...

Is the summoning supposed to be time so low or does the osyluth AI need a revision?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on January 27, 2008, 10:19:41 PM
The Osyluth's in the Barovia Crypts summon a skeleton chieftan, the skeleton takes two swings tops with his sword, gets unsummoned and the Osyluth summons another skeleton, the skeleton goes bye-bye, osyluth resummons...

Is the summoning supposed to be time so low or does the osyluth AI need a revision?
could reduce the amount of summon undead spells they get, then they'd only do it once.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: failed.bard on February 03, 2008, 02:25:22 PM
I was there before the last patch I think, and I'm not sure if it's been corrected since or is even wrong, but... In the purple crypts in the mountains, and connecting tunnels to the vamp crypt, you can critical hit and sneak attack both the xeg-yi and the drelbs.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Teh Pez on February 04, 2008, 05:26:54 PM
I was there before the last patch I think, and I'm not sure if it's been corrected since or is even wrong, but... In the purple crypts in the mountains, and connecting tunnels to the vamp crypt, you can critical hit and sneak attack both the xeg-yi and the drelbs.

Still can, was just there today.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on February 04, 2008, 05:36:33 PM
I think that's fine, they're not undead.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 04, 2008, 05:56:09 PM
correct, they're both outsiders and thus not immune to critical hits or sneak attacks
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nefensis on February 04, 2008, 06:07:26 PM
correct, they're both outsiders and thus not immune to critical hits or sneak attacks

That means one of the shinny bits is more deadly than the other shinny bits :P
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Municip on February 22, 2008, 01:22:49 PM
In the Barovian Crypts, the Giant Skeletons and the Hellcats attack eachother. Don't know if this is normal or not, but considering there's Giant Skeletons in the room opposite to them, AND in the room behind them...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: ethinos on February 22, 2008, 03:34:42 PM
Considering one is undead and the other is an outsider, I'm not surprised. After all, oozes attack skeletons in the Morninglord crypts.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 23, 2008, 06:53:34 PM
In the Barovian Crypts, the Giant Skeletons and the Hellcats attack eachother. Don't know if this is normal or not, but considering there's Giant Skeletons in the room opposite to them, AND in the room behind them...
hmm it's either a faction error or the giant skeletons are hitting the hellcats with their fireball attack. I'll check it out
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Municip on February 24, 2008, 05:44:03 PM
It's not because of the Fireballs. They'll just run straight through and go after the Giant Skeletons.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: BreakFree on February 24, 2008, 06:25:18 PM
I've been down there twice, both times the Giant Skeletons decided to attack each other after they rained their fiery-balls-of-doom on Kross. It was in the room with the coffins on the elevated platform thing.

I think it's because they did fireball-damage to each other, or maybe I just got lucky. -Shrugs-
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: tzaeru on March 05, 2008, 12:56:29 AM
Aren't yetis, elder yetis in particular, little wee bit too hard for the unexisting XP they are giving?

In 1v1 combat without potions, my level 12 warrior would die. The elder yeti has 4 attacks with AB 20/15/10/5. Two rounds of combat was enough to set my warrior to "injured"

From the whole cave I got "satisfied" while being on "strong desire to seek".. Only way I could kill them was with taunt, barkskin potions and trapping them between boulders.  :P
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: DM Macabre on March 05, 2008, 10:47:08 AM
Fire Minions. They look awesome gruesome and are really too easy. At least more health points to them would make them a challenge.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Rex on May 26, 2008, 12:59:29 PM
Musk Oxen.

These little buggers in the real world are brutally dangerous creatures.  Sure, taking them down with modern firearms is pretty easy because they are so badass they just circle up, look at you and go, "Dude, we're Musk Ox, you're going to get Pwned!"  but a male can hit upwards of 800 pounds (pretty impressive for a 4 foot tall critter), run about 30 mph, and the energy at impact from a musk ox charge is comparable to an 80 mph car crash (And they will do this to themselves over and over again with no ill effect).

Even when you hunt Musk Ox IRL, it's with Big Game Rifles.  You don't mess with these things, pretty much nothing does mess with an adult.  Be far more interesting that when you run into these things out in the mountains that they are actually a threat.  More hitpoints more speed, some agression, some IKD that sort of thing.  Kinda sad you can just walk into the middle of a small herd of them and slaughter them all in less then two rounds.

~Rex
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Wids on August 02, 2008, 09:32:51 AM
Yeah, those musk oxen are pretty disappointing.  Try being a ranger who tames one.  "Good boy!  Good boy!  Kill the crag cat!"  *mouses over the musk ox's thumbnail*  "Oh, wait...what kind of a Hit Point count is that?!?"  *watches as the crag cat kills the musk ox with one good swat*   :(

Also, a disembodied gremishka attacked my new cleric yesterday.  He had a floating name and injury status, but no body.  Therefore, I couldn't target him with sling attacks, mace attacks, Inflict Light Wounds, Scare or anything else.  Fortunately, auto-counterattacking still worked, so the gremishka got one free swing at my cleric before she clubbed him into the dirt mercilessly.   ;)

I guess it's rare enough that it doesn't really bear weight for investigating, though.  Besides, it was a gremishka.  I could see disembodied yetis being a problem, but not one of those mini-wererat-fey things.   8)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: mayvind on August 02, 2008, 09:58:01 AM


Also, a disembodied gremishka attacked my new cleric yesterday.  He had a floating name and injury status, but no body.  Therefore, I couldn't target him with sling attacks, mace attacks, Inflict Light Wounds, Scare or anything else.  Fortunately, auto-counterattacking still worked, so the gremishka got one free swing at my cleric before she clubbed him into the dirt mercilessly.   ;)

I guess it's rare enough that it doesn't really bear weight for investigating, though.  Besides, it was a gremishka.  I could see disembodied yetis being a problem, but not one of those mini-wererat-fey things.   8)

I think that is because of graphic error, relog and they will appear normal again, i have this problem all the time, with all creature type.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Rex on August 02, 2008, 10:09:16 AM
Yeah, those musk oxen are pretty disappointing.  Try being a ranger who tames one.  "Good boy!  Good boy!  Kill the crag cat!"  *mouses over the musk ox's thumbnail*  "Oh, wait...what kind of a Hit Point count is that?!?"  *watches as the crag cat kills the musk ox with one good swat*   :(

Also, a disembodied gremishka attacked my new cleric yesterday.  He had a floating name and injury status, but no body.  Therefore, I couldn't target him with sling attacks, mace attacks, Inflict Light Wounds, Scare or anything else.  Fortunately, auto-counterattacking still worked, so the gremishka got one free swing at my cleric before she clubbed him into the dirt mercilessly.   ;)

I guess it's rare enough that it doesn't really bear weight for investigating, though.  Besides, it was a gremishka.  I could see disembodied yetis being a problem, but not one of those mini-wererat-fey things.   8)

Wait till that happens with an Undead Gremishka.  Happens when it's laggy and a relog does flush them beck out in the open but if there is enough of them in an area that can get you beat up a bit.

~Rex
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: KoopaFanatic on August 02, 2008, 11:12:23 AM
Yeah, those musk oxen are pretty disappointing.  Try being a ranger who tames one.  "Good boy!  Good boy!  Kill the crag cat!"  *mouses over the musk ox's thumbnail*  "Oh, wait...what kind of a Hit Point count is that?!?"  *watches as the crag cat kills the musk ox with one good swat*   :(

I also remember reading that real-life muskoxen are practically vindictive.  Even with modern firearms they're hard to kill, and if they're attacked and they're not all wiped the herd will stalk the hunter(s) for a few days, goring and trampling whoever they can.   At the very least a hostile musk ox should attack rather than flee.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Rex on August 02, 2008, 11:06:49 PM
The Musk Ox, is a mean badass of an animal.  Some very good specials out there to watch on them and if you ever see one of them, you'll tend to pause and sweat a bit whenever you see one pop up on your screen.  I feel them, ill represented here.

~Rex
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Helaman on August 03, 2008, 04:44:28 AM
Would make hunting them for 'easy' meat fun too!

*watches the now 30-40 hp beast of charging fury bear down on him*
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Rex on August 03, 2008, 09:58:41 AM
Would make hunting them for 'easy' meat fun too!

*watches the now 30-40 hp beast of charging fury bear down on him*

The Males are roughly 4 feet tall at the shoulder, yet weigh 800 plus pounds, and run over 30 MPH.  Impact has been measured at roughly the same as an 80 mph car crash and this critter, is doing that with it's HEAD.  During breeding season, two Males are going head to head like that and the sound can be heard over 50 miles away.

That's more then 30-40 hitpoints to me.  That's at least an 80 hitpoint creature, twice as fast as a human, that should be hitting for about 1d20 minimum with some IKD feat behind it.  Nothing really messes with them except human hunters with Guns designed to take down Cape Buffalo or Elephant.

~Rex
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bad_Bud on August 18, 2008, 08:04:17 PM
Darklings flat out suck.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Wids on August 18, 2008, 08:17:23 PM
Darklings flat out suck.
They're good sniping practice, though.  Then again, I suppose most creatures are.   :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bad_Bud on August 19, 2008, 03:12:21 AM
Darklings practically dive into the arrows that would have otherwise missed.  That's how much they suck.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nefensis on August 19, 2008, 03:17:35 AM
And their friendly pixy allies usually cast confusion on THEM
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: failed.bard on August 19, 2008, 07:25:15 AM
The medium oozes in the ML crypts, when they do their acid burst, damage each other.  I saw a group of four whittle themselves down to last ooze slithering.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: failed.bard on October 04, 2008, 06:46:09 AM
  There is no reason for ochre jellies to KD spam, since they appear in mobs up to 50, see invisible, and give no XP.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Wids on October 04, 2008, 10:11:27 AM
Darklings practically dive into the arrows that would have otherwise missed.  That's how much they suck.
Just to be different, Viorica stealthed into the middle of a mob of seven Darklings not too long ago, then lunged into two-bladed melee.  Bear in mind that Viorica has steel weapons, Cleave and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting.

It was like dropping seven strawberries into a blender set to "Puree".   :mrgreen:

If you have an evil, forboding title like "Darkling", you had damn well better not suck.  And these guys do indeed suck seven flavors of sour frog butt.

  There is no reason for ochre jellies to KD spam, since they appear in mobs up to 50, see invisible, and give no XP.
There's no reason for ochre jellies to exist at all.  Bring back the hook horrors!  :|
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bad_Bud on October 04, 2008, 05:52:03 PM
Ochre Jellies should only perform knockdown attempts on every attack if they're going to attempt it at all.  They knock down my mage, but on my fighter they don't even try.  As blind, mindless blobs, I don't think they should have any kind of judgemental preference on who to knock down and who to not knock down.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Avatar6666 on January 12, 2009, 02:51:54 PM
Running back from the village and saw werebats fighting with wolfweres. I could even stop and they paid me no attention at all.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: ThAnswr on January 12, 2009, 03:20:44 PM
Running back from the village and saw werebats fighting with wolfweres. I could even stop and they paid me no attention at all.

It's been said, if you're close enough, you get credit for the kill. 
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Heretic on February 21, 2009, 02:05:11 PM
Elite Vampires (Male): Change Voiceset to a Male one, currently spams the Elite Vampiress voice.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Jana on May 25, 2009, 06:20:06 PM
hobgoblins, compared to the shamen and witchdocters that accompany these little guys they're only annoying meat sheilds with 1 hit die it seems. I'd rather like to see the difficulty in places with them more adveraged together instead of getting xp from a level 1 monster as well as a level 5 or 6.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: tzaeru on June 05, 2009, 02:44:04 PM
Ogre High Mages -ONLY- do Cantrips.

Consumed Demonologists quickly fall to Cantrips too, after spamming a Timestop, Horrid Wilthing, Chain Lighting and Weird - sometimes they skip those and go straight to Ray of Frosting you.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: failed.bard on June 05, 2009, 02:53:06 PM

Consumed Demonologists quickly fall to Cantrips too, after spamming a Timestop, Horrid Wilthing, Chain Lighting and Weird - sometimes they skip those and go straight to Ray of Frosting you.
Shh....  Ray of frost is ~very~ scary, let them spam it all they want.


There one spawn that needs to be moved, I'll either screenie it and PM Soren, or show a DM in game.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Aldarris on November 02, 2009, 02:27:14 PM
Invidian Tercio Crossbowmen sometimes become bugged and just stand there while you hit them.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: marlewebber on November 09, 2009, 10:30:22 AM
Not Erroneous, but definitely ineffective, the Sorcerer NPCs in the Smugglers Lair in Dementlieu like using their "Electric jolt" 0 level spell slots, before they utilize magic missle.  I"m thinking it'd be good if they fired off the magic missles first, and I might recommend Hold Person for their spell list.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: LawfulJoe on November 09, 2009, 03:11:19 PM
Ogre High Mages -ONLY- do Cantrips.

This must have been fixed, because they got me with a cone of cold dead bang!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Aldarris on November 29, 2009, 03:50:24 AM
The shadowdragon Zalaph.

At the beginning of the fight, he casts improved invisibility immediately, then shadow shield which is great.

Afterwards he resorts to lesser attack spells like phantasmal killer and other lesser spells, and occasionally every third round he'll use his breath.  Not really the most effective strategy for an epic dragon.  And by the time he gets to his strength which is a melee/breath combo, a capable party has had plenty of time to kill him.

After shadow shield, he should be going straight into melee with knockdown, and occasionally using his breath attack.  That dragon's got HIPS as well, great AC and he can maul anyone on the server.

Shadow shield could even be pre-cast upon him, so at most all he would have to do is cast improved invis then go on a killing spree.

Right now DM controlled he's great, but on his own and with the crappy spells he resorts to he's rather Erroneous and ineffective against a capable party.

Also, when you cut his belly open if you're LUCKY, you might find a Lamordian clock...

Might be nice to see that he gets beefed up, and the reward might be worth the fight.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bad_Bud on November 29, 2009, 04:24:08 AM
Problem is no one can actually withstand his melee attacks, so if he was to use them more often (as he does when DM's possess), people would be unable to fight him at all.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Aldarris on November 29, 2009, 08:34:19 AM
That's really the point.  His AB if I remember correctly is pretty high, but not impossibly high and so is his AC, with good reason.  He's an epic level shadow dragon.  That and the ability to HIPS makes him more than formidable.

Fighting him should be an epic battle.  Two to three high level fighters fully buffed by a mage and a cleric to heal fighters who nearly get rended to death and have to retreat momentarily, and a few archers sending volleys of arrows in.  That's a prepared party to take on something that's supposed to be nigh-impossible to conquer.

Right now he can be solo killed quite easily because he is not playing to his strengths.  A level 20 mage destroys him while he's casting ineffective spells in retaliation that would otherwise do nothing against the mage.  And if you're not in range of his breath, he won't walk up to you and use it because the AI would rather cast his array of ineffective spells instead.  He's very hittable with a high enough AB.  K_Moustakas's old character used to solo him.  Roland has fought him five times, two times in a group and three times alone and only self buffed.  He's won everytime, and the thing died in 3-4 rounds each time, and Roland didn't have a scratch on him...because the dragon sat there casting spells which would have otherwise no effect, and allowing attacks of opportunity and critical hits on itself.  Samuel Wrath killed Zalaph just as easily, alone.

To kill him slightly quicker, Roland can remove his armor, use no shield, and at the start of every other round use true strike scrolls to bump up his AB enough to hit Zalaph every time in the next round.

My point is really it's very easy to beat him because of the way he is set up.  He's like a level 17 mage who has any circle of spells to choose from, but chooses to cast magic missle repeteadly because he wants to die.

If I was a dragon like that, I'd be blending with the shadows, lurching out to rend some fool apart, or blow somebody away with negative energy breath.  Not repeatedly spam phantasmal killer (Which characters fighting him will be able to block with a PfE, and most probably will have one considering his fear DC is so high) and squat out in the open, especially after the first one had no effect at all.

I used to play Bulder's Gate 2, and Icewind Dale.  Man, when you ran into an ancient dragon and that music started playing you would say "Oh crap", and your nerves would be on edge, and you'd be trying just to stay alive half the time.

That's what fighting a dragon should be like.  Especially a dragon like Zalaph.

And yes, characters can withstand his melee attacks with teamwork.  That's why you'd need the mage and the cleric to provide support.  With a shadow shield (Which Roland can get a +5 from, but any other character could get a +4 from a druid's barkskin, or +3 from a potion of barkskin), +4 magic vestment on armor and shield, haste, and mage armor, and improved invisibility Roland would have 62 AC in improved expertise, and 50% concealment.  Of course, he wouldn't be able to hit Zalaph unless he scored a 20, but he could definately hold him off and withstand him in melee.

Vasille would do even better in that respect.  Higher AC.

Gus Shadowshield as well.

Thanatos when he gets up there could do the same.

Any melee class with a base AC of 30-34 and improved expertise would be able to withstand Zalaph if they were properly prepared to fight something that fearsome in combat.  And you would need to be.

There'd be strategy involved.  The character getting pounded by Zalaph would have to crouch in IE to survive, and the other two fighters would be on the offensive.  If Zalaph switched targets, someone else would have to play defense.

In my opinion, that's what the encounter should be like.

As I said, it should be an epic battle.  Right now it's pretty much a cakewalk for a remotely high level group.

And something like that shouldn't be killed so easily by a single character.

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Delete Me on November 29, 2009, 12:49:07 PM
Solution: I posses him and wait for people to try and fight.

Result:  Everyone that fights him dies.   

I like it. :D
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: DM Nocturne on November 29, 2009, 03:08:58 PM
Solution: I posses him and wait for people to try and fight.

Result:  Everyone that fights him dies.   

I like it. :D

 :fonzie:

Aldarris has some good points. The problem with this is that it's default NwN AI. Ravenloft is not at all at fault with this one. :)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: failed.bard on November 29, 2009, 03:12:11 PM
  Ravenloft has a custom AI for most creatures.  Aldarris is right about phantasmal killer, though.  Since you need PfE to deal with the fear aura, phantasmal killer does nothing.  Lesser spell breach is the same level and would make more sense for Zalaph to use.  Strip the mind protection, fear aura kicks in, PC runs screaming in fear.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Aldarris on November 29, 2009, 08:11:27 PM
What I'd propose is remove the PK and other lesser spells from Zalaph.  Let him retain improved invis and shadow shield.

Giving him spell breach spells might be nice, but they'd be useless if he just spammed them after the other two spells.

Other then that, let him be the powerhouse dragon he's meant to be.   :thumbup:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: HellsPanda on November 29, 2009, 11:43:39 PM
what makes him inneffective is his breathweapon, every cleric 17+ can make the entire party immune to it.
Most of the times Samuel Wrath fought him, he was pretty much spamming breath weapons
Also his AC isnt that high, and any high level cleric is a bad point too balance things, especially since I didnt start going to fight him, til around level 18-20, as high level clerics even non powerbuilt, like Sammy was, can easily reach and AC of 44 on his own, dont need more... Also he is unusually well equipped because of a long vardo career.
  Zalaph's claws are hardly a problem for a decent AC char either... he needs more HPs, lots more HPS... he needs survivability, and place a few minions in that room... a swarm or two of those Greater Shadow Snakes, and Elder Ebon tigers. Since everyone just stops and buffs just outside anyway.
Also just remove any mind affecting spells from evil monsters, never once seen a party go into a dungeon without full PfE protection.
Give them something that actually affects people
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: LoLJohnFerro on November 30, 2009, 08:42:39 AM
Give him an aura of darkness so if people don't have ultra vision he chops you to ribbons.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Minstrel on December 02, 2009, 04:35:41 PM
Remove spells from dragon.

Create spellcasting minions to spawn with dragon.

Add Spell Breach and G. Dispelling to those minions' spells.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Aldarris on December 02, 2009, 04:43:19 PM
 :thumbup:  Perfect.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on December 02, 2009, 04:51:32 PM
what makes him inneffective is his breathweapon, every cleric 17+ can make the entire party immune to it.
stopping you right there because Zalaph wasn't intended for characters of that level. The area he's in is intended for mid-level characters (8-12). He wasn't even intended to be a normal boss, since the only way to fight him is to insult him in his conversation.

Anyway, I'll revise his spells.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bad_Bud on December 02, 2009, 06:15:14 PM
Mid level characters aren't going to survive in the coal mine...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: HellsPanda on December 02, 2009, 07:39:46 PM
he has conversations? everytime I have been there he just attacks

also level 8-12 ish chars can't fight their way past the coal mines


if he is intended for 8-12 ish chars, revise the entire coal mine
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on December 02, 2009, 09:17:38 PM
meh, maybe the whole area's been revised since I made it, then. :pbbbtt:

But initially it was not made for 17th level characters, and you had to pick a certain conversation option to fight Zalaph. Since our current plans involve either moving high-level dungeons out of Barovia or revising them for lower levels, I'll put this on the "to do" list for the plans.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: HellsPanda on December 02, 2009, 11:00:03 PM
but using chars like Samuel and Roland as the Basis of any balancing is bad... as they are both level 20 chars...

and I think it was sometime last year, they revised it too make Steel more difficult too aquire, but I might be wrong
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Zedrik on December 03, 2009, 05:12:46 AM
but using chars like Samuel and Roland as the Basis of any balancing is bad... as they are both level 20 chars...

and I think it was sometime last year, they revised it too make Steel more difficult too aquire, but I might be wrong

The shadow cave and the Wagner mine were both upped in difficulty. To the point that trying to get people to go to the Wagner mine is practically impossible. People still go to the shadow cave regularly, so getting coal isn't that difficult. But getting silver? Right...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: KoopaFanatic on December 24, 2009, 08:05:48 AM
All along Old Svalich Road, boars spawn in groups, and sometimes there are (hostile) razorbacks in the group as well.  And when a PC enters the area, the razorbacks immediately turn on the boars, killing them.  This might be intentional, but I suspect it's actually an unintended faction issue.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Springer on December 24, 2009, 08:17:59 AM
It seems there increased difficulty all over the server. Not just those mines.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Emomina on December 24, 2009, 08:29:01 AM
Along the same lines as the razorback/ boar relationship.  I noticed that Morghs and Bodaks will attack Carrion Crawlers in the Sanctuary of Blessed Succor's mausoleum. Might be intentional but thought worth mentioning.

And just personal opinion here, but the Grave Ooze monster's Reflex vs Engulfment, and Fortitude vs Paralyisis is a tad too high of a DC  IMHO.  I know the monster is in an anti-Cleric monster in a Pro-Cleric area, and that is cool. but the DC could be lowered to give Rogues near auto success and still make them hell for the average beefcake cleric.  As it is now, a max reflex midlevel rogue will still have a more than reasonable chance of failure and if they do, its lights out because the Fortitude Saving throw is going to paralyze them and from then on the Rogue is missing a primary source of AC, paralysis being one of the few instances that uncanny dodge will not retain Dex to AC.  With the lower AC, the ooze starts hitting and the on-hit saving throws occur again until death. And its like a win button for the Grave Ooze. Really cool monster though.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Aldarris on December 24, 2009, 02:20:55 PM
Shadows, both regular and summoned can become entangled and webbed.  I'd think such things would pass right through them, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: DM Tarokka on December 24, 2009, 04:45:26 PM
Along the same lines as the razorback/ boar relationship.  I noticed that Morghs and Bodaks will attack Carrion Crawlers in the Sanctuary of Blessed Succor's mausoleum. Might be intentional but thought worth mentioning.




Always been like that. I remember I died once as Belinda because, invisible, I stopped to watch them fighting and was caught by the Bodak's death gaze. N33WB!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: KoopaFanatic on January 07, 2010, 07:48:15 PM
I just watched a pair of vampire sorceresses repeatedly cast mage armor on themselves (4 or 5 times each) before casting phantasmal killer on one another.  Why can't they spam these spells when they've spotted PCs instead of Evard's?  ;)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Shadowthrone on January 08, 2010, 07:22:11 AM
Vampire Priest's cast Clarity.

Uh, not sure they need it.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Taty on January 08, 2010, 07:45:14 AM
I had a vamp sorc cast vampelric touch on me the other day, thought that was odd.

~Taty~
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: LoLJohnFerro on January 08, 2010, 07:46:45 AM
Um I had a vampire sorc cast evards on other vampires rather then us..
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: failed.bard on January 08, 2010, 05:44:04 PM
  All NPC creatures will attack each other under certain circumstances, mainly if their summons gets damaged by an area affect spell from an ally.  The only way to prevent that would be to either remove summons from AOO using creatures, or vice versa.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Mrjunkie on January 30, 2010, 05:17:24 AM
Death  Slaad, Greater Planar Binding, it can cast See invisibility upto 6 times on itself, perhaps limiting the amounts of see invis it can cast to one will keep it in line.

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Gorasin on November 25, 2010, 10:28:18 AM
Flesh golems are hurt by cold. They supposed to be immune I thought. I am pretty sure I hurt one with electrical varnish once as well. Is this correct?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Smitehammer on December 14, 2010, 06:44:00 PM
Greater dust devils are invincible.  31 AB while spamming knockdown in groups of 4 might be a bit much for the server.  Maybe have them cast gust of wind a few times and then just attack without the knockdown spam?  Even with the knockdowns out of the picture, it took our wizard 4 negative energy bursts, 2 empowered fireballs, and 4 lesser issac's missile storms to kill one dust devil that was 'path trapped' by a wall.  He otherwise would have killed every NPC in the city and leveled all buildings in a 4 mile radius.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Zedrik on December 15, 2010, 12:06:06 AM
Greater dust devils are invincible.  31 AB while spamming knockdown in groups of 4 might be a bit much for the server.  Maybe have them cast gust of wind a few times and then just attack without the knockdown spam?  Even with the knockdowns out of the picture, it took our wizard 4 negative energy bursts, 2 empowered fireballs, and 4 lesser issac's missile storms to kill one dust devil that was 'path trapped' by a wall.  He otherwise would have killed every NPC in the city and leveled all buildings in a 4 mile radius.

I encountered one, solo, and it nearly killed me (and I never killed it, lost it by running through maps, it managed to kill a lot of NPCs though). I figured... okay, no soling greater dust devils. And then... it nearly party wiped a 5-man party level 17-19, leaving Warbird to wait until the thing stopped body camping to retrieve people's corpses/money/gear.

Those things are really really really nasty.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Emomina on December 15, 2010, 12:19:53 AM
Yeah, if there is a way to deal with those things then I have not yet figured it out.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bad_Bud on December 15, 2010, 06:21:36 AM
They're killable by a fully buffed fighter, but... have to kind of pick them off.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: HellsPanda on December 15, 2010, 06:23:57 AM
they are not ineffective!, they are highly effective!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Emomina on December 15, 2010, 06:32:59 AM
They're killable by a fully buffed fighter, but... have to kind of pick them off.

Yeah, that worked out very well for Sedrik!

I never heard the "this fight is lost" emote so many times in a row before  :lol:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bad_Bud on December 16, 2010, 01:15:00 AM
You didn't understand the beatdown that was taking place.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Misan on December 16, 2010, 01:46:15 AM
AI for the Alhoon needs to be checked over.  Think that all he did when I last fought him was stand there and get his head caved in.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Telkar on December 17, 2010, 08:59:57 PM
Just wanted to mention Nessian Warhounds. Are they giving any xp, or at least proper xp? For something with 21 ab and such, I thought it a bit strange that a 19th lvl wouldn't get at least a little for one. Might be their CR really isn't that great.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: respawnaholic on January 16, 2011, 07:23:33 AM
Not sure if this has ever been posted, but Orge High Mages basically engage with a crossbow and thats it. Ive witnessed this numerous times. In fact I dont think Ive ever seen them do anything else even in melee.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Springer on January 16, 2011, 07:48:53 AM
They also like to drink numerous potions they have.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Norture on January 16, 2011, 11:35:31 AM
Well, nobody said ogres were smart. The high mages are high mages because they didn't blow themselves up with fireballs yet I guess.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Kenkaku on January 16, 2011, 12:04:59 PM
Not sure if this has ever been posted, but Orge High Mages basically engage with a crossbow and thats it. Ive witnessed this numerous times. In fact I dont think Ive ever seen them do anything else even in melee.

I personally have seen High Mages spam 9th CL Magic Missiles pretty much every time I ran into the things. While it's a great spell and extremely painful if you run into more than one (60hp doesn't last with four of them on you  :shock:), they're hardly difficult from what I've seen. Their lesser and dumber brothers, the normal Ogre Mage, seems far more destructive with Cone of Cold every other round.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Threefold on January 16, 2011, 01:36:16 PM
I got Cone of Colded by ogre mages (fortunately whilst I was fighting two normal Ogres. Friendly fire does not register in their volcabulary).

So it seems they do at least cast it some times. And ouch when it does...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Springer on January 16, 2011, 02:25:34 PM
We mean ogre high mages, not ordinary mages. High mages only cast impr invisibility and stand if not spotted if they are then they begin to shoot with crossbow ( could have rapid reload aswell btw) and drink their potions.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ternce on February 11, 2011, 07:43:44 AM
Not sure anything can be done about this, but as far as "iineffective" creatures go, I'd like to point out the giant ants and their battle animations.  They use their antennae to attack with.  This is the equivalent of me trying to beat them to death using my nose and eyes as a weapon.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 12, 2011, 08:44:03 PM
Not sure anything can be done about this, but as far as "iineffective" creatures go, I'd like to point out the giant ants and their battle animations.  They use their antennae to attack with.  This is the equivalent of me trying to beat them to death using my nose and eyes as a weapon.
There's absolutely nothing that can be done about this. That's how the model was animated.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Knas on March 02, 2011, 03:32:37 AM
Think the vampire sorceress mob in the vampire crypt is broken. Was casting ultravision or true sight over and over until it had no charges left on the spell level. Making it a breeze to kill in the meantime.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Knas on March 10, 2011, 03:30:37 AM
Think the vampire sorceress mob in the vampire crypt is broken. Was casting ultravision or true sight over and over until it had no charges left on the spell level. Making it a breeze to kill in the meantime.

They seem to have stopped this routine and begun only casting Evards black tentacles instead
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: LivingWasteland on March 10, 2011, 06:56:46 AM
Think the vampire sorceress mob in the vampire crypt is broken. Was casting ultravision or true sight over and over until it had no charges left on the spell level. Making it a breeze to kill in the meantime.

They seem to have stopped this routine and begun only casting Evards black tentacles instead

Who knew dead chicks were into the black tentacles.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Avatar6666 on March 20, 2011, 04:03:03 PM
I still think that oozes do way more damage then they should, I fought three large umberhulks off and i didnt die, but one ooze after resting nearly killed me and it killed my buffed animal Companion. Thats a bit much.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Kenkaku on March 25, 2011, 12:54:41 AM
I've noticed that every time I head up Mt. Baratak, near the entrance to the Cave that leads down to the Ice Palace, All of the fogwarden's are already dead with several ghosties hovering over them. I think that means the Fogwarden faction settings are a little off. Might be worth looking into.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Kenkaku on March 26, 2011, 12:23:41 PM
Okay.... I just ran into some Umber Hulks down in the Neureni cave and was having a nice one-on-one bout with a Large one when his lesser brethren came strolling around the corner. Immediately, the moronic bug used his confusion glare thing and, while I passed my save, the Large Umber Hulk I was punching holes in didn't. Needless to say, he promptly stopped attacking and decided to try and walk his way through the nearest wall drawing AoO and getting Sneak Attacked into Oblivion. Seems a little odd to me these over-grown cockroaches wouldn't be immune to their own ability.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Aahz on March 26, 2011, 01:24:24 PM
Skeletons are running away now, I don't know if that is intended or not.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on March 27, 2011, 07:28:30 AM
Skeletons are running away now, I don't know if that is intended or not.

Where was this and what skeletons?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Aahz on March 27, 2011, 09:19:17 AM
It was just a normal skeleton and it was in the random cave to the south on the map where the orphanage is
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Springer on July 09, 2011, 04:04:34 AM
Ogre high mage likes to cast dispells when you dont even have any buffs on you.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: tzaeru on July 09, 2011, 04:18:46 AM
Ogre high mage likes to cast dispells when you dont even have any buffs on you.

How can they know whether you've buffs or not? ;)

Though, the ogre mages like to cast invisibility, enter melee, cast invisibility and melee again. They'd do -a lot- more damage by using their Cones of Cold..
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Springer on July 09, 2011, 04:32:22 AM
Well yes, but when they cast like 3-4 dispells instead of cones of cold or just attacks in melee they are harmless.

Their dispells are also weak I think because they couldnt dispell my resist element which came from potion.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Miuo on July 09, 2011, 01:14:36 PM
Change them to spam Cone of cold :D!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Jay on July 19, 2011, 10:41:14 AM
The sullen woods keep spawning black puddings, which are hostile tot he shadows, the shadows attack them and make a million billion black puddings which are more then a match for most lowbies that go there. May want to address it.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Cursed Ink on March 06, 2012, 02:20:55 AM
Beetles in the Beetle cave seem to give very little exp for their damage output. Wiped out much over half the cave and got almost nothing, maybe check em out?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Winter83 on May 10, 2012, 06:58:05 PM
The forgotten temple under the blessed succor in the VoB:

First floor is overly difficult, yielding good xp, and requires team work. (juju zombie champs and zombie champs). Further levels with shadows are just annoying, no xp at all compared to the 1st level. I was expecting it getting harder as a party advances, but it just got boring and lost the thrill.

Invidian camp : invidian mobs are nasty, hitting hard and yielding no xp on lvl 13, while going into the neureni ruins the challange gets easier and also offers xp reward.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: respawnaholic on August 29, 2012, 02:31:01 AM
Random spawn in the cave close to the Krofburg Mines. Cave was filled with dire boars and wereboars. I know wereboars require silver or better weapons to hurt, but in almost every other way the dire boars are much more dangerous. I dont really see the invulnerability to normal weapons being an issue to help compensate either since pretty much every character past 3rd level is going to have a silver or better weapon in their posession.

I would submit that wereboars could use some beefing up so that in a fight they arent reglegated to insignifigant threat relative to normal dire boars which is quickly how i ended up treating them.

P.S. and sidenote: Those greater balisks (in another place entirely) really need to drop some phat lewt skins.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: LackofCertainty on August 29, 2012, 04:05:26 AM
The Greater Umberhulks that can spawn in the random tunnels under vallaki seem easier than the Large Umberhulks.


They both have similar AB and damage, but the greater umber hulks have a confusion gaze.  Unfortunately, that can easily be thwarted by protection from evil. (which is probably the most widespread buff a party has access to)  They continue to spam their gaze often, even if your entire party is protected from mind affecting which means they waste a lot of turns.  Additionally, umberhulks are not immune to confusion themselves, so the Greaters confuse each other and fight themselves.

My character is a cleric, so my easy access to protection from evil might skew my view, but personally I find the Large Umberhulks more dangerous than the Greaters, because the larges don't waste any turns and just spam their heavy hitting auto-attack.

I think reducing the number of uses per day their confusion gaze has would be the easiest way to fix it.  You could also tweak the AI so that it tries it's confusion gaze once, and then stops using it if facing immunities. (I have no idea how ai works, so if that's not doable, just tell me I'm dumb.  ;))  Otherwise you could maybe give them confusion immunity?  (it wouldn't be perfect, because umberhulks shouldn't be immune to the spell confusion, but it's better than seeing Greaters derp and kill eachother)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: tzaeru on August 29, 2012, 04:09:11 AM
The Prisoner-Slayer of Perfidus seems really weak, considering that if I understand it right, he's the highest ECL monster on whole server.

His AB, damage and AC are just so low that he generally can't dash more than a couple of hits before already dead. He does have Dispel and some Negative Energy abilities, but the Dispel has pretty low DC and can't get rid of most high level buffs and his Negative Energy stuff is almost completely neglected with any damage resistance to it.

This comes especially true when compared to Malthor.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: APorg on August 29, 2012, 05:42:38 AM
The Prisoner-Slayer of Perfidus seems really weak, considering that if I understand it right, he's the highest ECL monster on whole server.

His AB, damage and AC are just so low that he generally can't dash more than a couple of hits before already dead. He does have Dispel and some Negative Energy abilities, but the Dispel has pretty low DC and can't get rid of most high level buffs and his Negative Energy stuff is almost completely neglected with any damage resistance to it.

This comes especially true when compared to Malthor.

I agree. Malthor is way harder yet (supposedly) lower CR. It's somewhat surprising.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: LackofCertainty on August 30, 2012, 04:58:27 PM
In the Rolling Hills Zone near the village of barovia. (I forget the exact area name but I it's the zone right after the waterfall and right before the crossroads that goes to tser pool)

At high spawn at night, there are Mountain Loup Garus, Alpha Deep Forest Wolves, and Will o' Wisps along the road.  Unfortunately, the will o' wisps are in a different faction, so the moutain loup garus promptly kill them all.  :?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ingwulf on August 31, 2012, 03:44:49 AM
I never remember the creatures name but, In the ruins south of the forest lake (Degannwy), There are some Greater Visages and that is all fine but then there is a ghost with a greatsword that appears as the "boss" He attacks the visages, making your work there as an adventurer way easier.

I think he his called Gilos the Faithful or something like that.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on August 31, 2012, 04:40:06 AM
It's actually intended. If you read the various notes and clues left behind, it may give away why the ghost is mad at the others ;)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Honoun on August 31, 2012, 09:49:08 AM
What? Read the ingame notes? As if we have time to do that what with the screaming and yelling and running away.. Oh the pain the pain the PAIN! :P
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: LackofCertainty on August 31, 2012, 07:54:41 PM
I noticed the will o' wisps being slaughtered by werewolves again, in another zone.  (the zone with the T shaped cross roads that connects to the nymph cave. Sorry I didn't check for the exact zone name)


Another nighttime road problem.


Bonebats are useless.

They seem to be placed along the road in order to spot/harass invisible people, but they don't accomplish that at all, because of a couple reasons.

1. They have terrible ab and damage.  An invisible person can safely ignore them without having any trouble.
2. They spawn in the same areas as wolves/werewolves/wolfweres/loup-garus, and are hostile to all those monsters.  They're completely trivialized, because a person can just lead them to a werewolf group and watch the bats get torn apart, without ever having to break invisibility.

I think a better option would be to give werebats see invis, (they are part bat, after all) and to make some greater werebat variants.  Would make high spawn roads at night a little more scary for the people who just invis run through them at the moment.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ellana Twiggy on September 02, 2012, 09:27:29 AM
How about the dark stalkers and their little friends under dervishhiem?  Something with a +11 ish to hit, 90% conecealment, about 7 hp, and what looks like about 2-3 d6 sneak attack while spamming hips.
Even a level 6 doesn't get xp for them, but with their concealment and hips they can take out well over a lvl 10 char who doesn't have aoe spells.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: APorg on September 02, 2012, 09:45:26 AM
How about the dark stalkers and their little friends under dervishhiem?  Something with a +11 ish to hit, 90% conecealment, about 7 hp, and what looks like about 2-3 d6 sneak attack while spamming hips.
Even a level 6 doesn't get xp for them, but with their concealment and hips they can take out well over a lvl 10 char who doesn't have aoe spells.

They're actually very easy to kill with magic missile or missile storms. But I agree, they're just frustrating and un-fun because of their 90% concealment.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: LackofCertainty on September 02, 2012, 09:08:22 PM
How about the dark stalkers and their little friends under dervishhiem?  Something with a +11 ish to hit, 90% conecealment, about 7 hp, and what looks like about 2-3 d6 sneak attack while spamming hips.
Even a level 6 doesn't get xp for them, but with their concealment and hips they can take out well over a lvl 10 char who doesn't have aoe spells.

They're actually very easy to kill with magic missile or missile storms. But I agree, they're just frustrating and un-fun because of their 90% concealment.

Meh.  I don't find I mind them much at all.  It may be frustrating to fight them with an auto attacker, but for a mage they have such low hp that they're super satisfying.  One spell can clear out a whole group of them.  :mrgreen:

I consider them to be another tool in the dev's toolbox, and they're used rather sparingly as is.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ellana Twiggy on September 03, 2012, 05:16:22 PM
How about the dark stalkers and their little friends under dervishhiem?  Something with a +11 ish to hit, 90% conecealment, about 7 hp, and what looks like about 2-3 d6 sneak attack while spamming hips.
Even a level 6 doesn't get xp for them, but with their concealment and hips they can take out well over a lvl 10 char who doesn't have aoe spells.

They're actually very easy to kill with magic missile or missile storms. But I agree, they're just frustrating and un-fun because of their 90% concealment.

Meh.  I don't find I mind them much at all.  It may be frustrating to fight them with an auto attacker, but for a mage they have such low hp that they're super satisfying.  One spell can clear out a whole group of them.  :mrgreen:

but not everyone has spells at their disposal, mind. A fighter at level 10+ shouldn't have an issue with something that is obviously a cr 2 or 3 judging by its low hit points. But i've seen non casters get pretty beaten down by them in a short amount of time, mainly because of the auto spam hips and sneak attack, followed by the fact that when you do get to swing at them they have that 90% concealment.
I consider them to be another tool in the dev's toolbox, and they're used rather sparingly as is.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ercvadasz on September 03, 2012, 05:24:35 PM
How about the dark stalkers and their little friends under dervishhiem?  Something with a +11 ish to hit, 90% conecealment, about 7 hp, and what looks like about 2-3 d6 sneak attack while spamming hips.
Even a level 6 doesn't get xp for them, but with their concealment and hips they can take out well over a lvl 10 char who doesn't have aoe spells.

They're actually very easy to kill with magic missile or missile storms. But I agree, they're just frustrating and un-fun because of their 90% concealment.

Meh.  I don't find I mind them much at all.  It may be frustrating to fight them with an auto attacker, but for a mage they have such low hp that they're super satisfying.  One spell can clear out a whole group of them.  :mrgreen:

but not everyone has spells at their disposal, mind. A fighter at level 10+ shouldn't have an issue with something that is obviously a cr 2 or 3 judging by its low hit points. But i've seen non casters get pretty beaten down by them in a short amount of time, mainly because of the auto spam hips and sneak attack, followed by the fact that when you do get to swing at them they have that 90% concealment.
I consider them to be another tool in the dev's toolbox, and they're used rather sparingly as is.

A fighter level 4 can kill them, with ease. Just need to put a bit of mind into it:)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Crimson Shuriken on November 19, 2012, 02:56:54 PM
Monsters I think could use a cursory glance since I feel they are weak for where they appear and on what spawn:

- Crimson Death  - no more or less challenging than any Allip or other ecto creature as is now. Should get an AB, damage, save DC or combination of or other boost so they are not as much of a pushover

- Juvenile (Nashrou? I forget what types they're supposed to be) demons. I think they need to be replaced by something even remotely of the level of the Hezrou, Glabrezu and Goristro they appear beside. Just a non-factor as is now.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on November 19, 2012, 04:02:43 PM
Werefoxes are terrifying and give no xp, what the what?!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: RigorMortis on December 12, 2012, 02:45:35 PM
Werefoxes are terrifying and give no xp, what the what?!

We are upgrading, that is the true horror now. .  you don't get exp for your kills >:}D Bwahahahaha!!!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Onkel Bob on September 22, 2013, 12:01:59 PM

Needlemen are ridiculously op.

I saw a group of them for the first time today near the Treeant Forest. There were six of them but only two saw me and fired quillfire at me. Each spike did between 10 to 20 damage and each of them fired 6 spikes each. I died very quickly, because I was totally not prepared for that. I can't believe it's intentional that so large groups of so powerful enemies can spawn in an area intended for low to mid leveled players. They would get wasted!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Sinful_Wishes on September 22, 2013, 01:01:29 PM

Needlemen are ridiculously op.

I saw a group of them for the first time today near the Treeant Forest. There were six of them but only two saw me and fired quillfire at me. Each spike did between 10 to 20 damage and each of them fired 6 spikes each. I died very quickly, because I was totally not prepared for that. I can't believe it's intentional that so large groups of so powerful enemies can spawn in an area intended for low to mid leveled players. They would get wasted!

They are suppose to spread out to multiple targets and are affected by low DR, not a place to wander in alone!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: RedwizardD on September 22, 2013, 02:38:57 PM

Needlemen are ridiculously op.

I saw a group of them for the first time today near the Treeant Forest. There were six of them but only two saw me and fired quillfire at me. Each spike did between 10 to 20 damage and each of them fired 6 spikes each. I died very quickly, because I was totally not prepared for that. I can't believe it's intentional that so large groups of so powerful enemies can spawn in an area intended for low to mid leveled players. They would get wasted!

They are suppose to spread out to multiple targets and are affected by low DR, not a place to wander in alone!

There's really nothing to warn that this is going to happen there until you wander in the first time and die.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Geiger on September 22, 2013, 02:42:42 PM
To be quite honest that dungeon needs revamped (a lot do). I'd say increasing the CR on needlemen, and putting them in fewer quantities alongside other veggie monsters. Just string things out, put other variables than, you know, machine gun celery.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ercvadasz on September 22, 2013, 02:45:07 PM
actually the funny thing is it is the deadliest when needleman do spawn there....on max spawn only treants are there which are a lot easier to kill than needlemen and also a lot more rewarding both xp and craft wise.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Lucadia on September 22, 2013, 02:58:20 PM
they are honestly to much as well. they can do upwards hundred points of damage in one spray. then if four or so target you in a round theres no chance of survival even if you walked in with say stone skin or even dr items.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Sinful_Wishes on September 22, 2013, 03:04:02 PM
It could be worse, they could be crag cats that do this. *shudder*
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Lucadia on September 22, 2013, 03:16:59 PM
wrong type of spray. Time add in giant skunks .
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: respawnaholic on September 24, 2013, 08:08:03 PM
wrong type of spray. Time add in giant skunks .

I kind of like the area simply because the threat is so grossly out of proportion to anything you get there no one ever goes there so its easy to find herbs and such. Of course when I do go there if I see needle-men I run. If I see tree ents I'll stick around for the bark.(i.e. I run from a lower level threat because its far more dangerous.) Their like black puddings before the puddings had their touch attack nerfed. I was in the ML church one time during a DM event and tried slipping out the back door. There were about a dozen or more needle men standing in the graveyard. Long story short a 13th level ranger with good AC and minor buffs went from hull health to badly mangled corpse in ONE round. I think each needle-man is like a 4th level creature so yeah....their kind of overpowered.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: respawnaholic on September 24, 2013, 08:12:03 PM
wrong type of spray. Time add in giant skunks .

sorry. double post.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on September 29, 2013, 05:05:45 PM
In regards to the needlemen, I gave them the monster ability, but I can try giving them the shifter version instead: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Manticore_spikes

Quote
There are two forms of this ability—the monster ability (also used as a cast spell item property) and the shifted ability.

For the monster ability, there are 6 spikes, each dealing 1d8 + 2 piercing damage.

For the shifted ability, the number of spikes is half the caster's shifter level to a maximum of 5. If given to a non-shifter in the Toolset, the number of spikes is fixed at 6. (In the case of a non-shifter gaining this ability through a non-standard polymorph, the number of spikes is half the caster level to a maximum of 5.) The damage each spike inflicts is one d4 per spike fired. (So if three spikes were fired, each would do 3d4 damage, for a total of 9d4 damage spread over up to three targets.)

The monster ability only targets enemies, while the shifted ability will also target neutral player characters and associates.

Typically the difference between the (intended) monster ability and the shifted ability assigned via the Toolset is the damage of each spike (1d8 + 2 for the monster ability vs. 6d4 for the shifted).

I'm not sure if the shifter version would be better, though.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: RedwizardD on September 29, 2013, 05:11:38 PM
That seems like a fine solution to the problem. Would it be easier to switch the cactaurs needlemen out for a different creature entirely though?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Smitehammer on October 09, 2013, 02:38:48 AM
Not so much about erroneous or ineffective creatures, but with the layout of the forums it's difficult to decide where to talk about this.

Low level dungeons, across the board, need to be addressed.  The risk vs reward for 'low level' dungeons such as the gremishka and bahkna rahkna cave (which anyone who hasn't been here for years knows only as the cave of 'small creatures' and 'small humanoids'... but that's for another topic) have CR .25 to CR 1 creatures.  Which is fine, but they easily have 20 of these.  That's a problem.  See, unless you're making a character at the same time as a couple of friends, you'll probably be alone when low enough level to actually go into these dungeons.

So let's say you're a dwarven barbarian with 20 con.  You get 34 hitpoints, holy hot-damn!  The 'small humanoids' easily do 5 damage on a non-crit.  So you'll be dead in 7 hits.  You walk into the main room, and the little mosnters are armed with bows and arrows - the whole room filled with them.  Let's say your AC at level 2 is 20, because you somehow powerbuilt yourself to hell.  Good for you!  Well, the 'small creatures' have a +7 AB, and there's likely a half-dozen to a dozen of those guys walking about, each only needing to roll a 13 to hit you.  Meanwhile, the 'small humanoids' have a +5 bonus, so while they need a 15 to hit you, remember there's a ton of those guys, and they're ranged.  In other words, your powerbuilt high AC barbarian with ridiculously high hitpoints for your level is dead unless you kill everything in that cave within a few rounds.  You're playing anything that's NOT a 20 con dwarf with 20 AC out of the box, you'd better have that assassin imp familiar.

The problem is the sheer number of stuff you expect lowbies to fight.  True lowbies, fresh from the mists, tend to have only a few hit points, low ACs, tiny ABs, very few spells, and if they have animal companions or familiars, those have been made useless (with one noted exception).  Even if their enemies need 20s to hit them, surrounded by 20 of them they can expect to be hit EVERY ROUND.  And the enemies NEVER need a 20 to hit them.

My suggestion?  Revamp the low-level dungeons.  I'm talking the really low level ones, like the 'small creature' cave and the 'fire beetles'.  Even the sewers with their kajillions of rat-swarms, or at least certain areas which are intended to be navigable to low levels (like places on the way to the drain for lowbie caliban).  Their CR is stupid for how dead they'll make you, but more importantly both of these dungeons have enormous swarms present throughout them.  Reduce the number in the swarms, and make their CR a little higher.  Even if you make the enemies tougher (which I honestly don't think is needed considering who these are intended for) just having less of them will make things SO much more manageable.  There's only a handful of dungeons that fit this category, so it shouldn't be too difficult to overhaul, and it would do wonders for improving the first impression new players have when they get here.  I'd include the thoul cave among those to fix, but I'm not sure if that's intended to be a lowbie dungeon or just a place for high levels to blast everything in sight with ease while collecting cave-fungus for herbalism.  I don't think I've ever had a small team of ~ level 4s successfully get through the thouls on any spawn greater than bats.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Sinful_Wishes on October 09, 2013, 03:08:32 AM
Not so much about erroneous or ineffective creatures, but with the layout of the forums it's difficult to decide where to talk about this.

Low level dungeons, across the board, need to be addressed.  The risk vs reward for 'low level' dungeons such as the gremishka and bahkna rahkna cave (which anyone who hasn't been here for years knows only as the cave of 'small creatures' and 'small humanoids'... but that's for another topic) have CR .25 to CR 1 creatures.  Which is fine, but they easily have 20 of these.  That's a problem.  See, unless you're making a character at the same time as a couple of friends, you'll probably be alone when low enough level to actually go into these dungeons.

So let's say you're a dwarven barbarian with 20 con.  You get 34 hitpoints, holy hot-damn!  The 'small humanoids' easily do 5 damage on a non-crit.  So you'll be dead in 7 hits.  You walk into the main room, and the little mosnters are armed with bows and arrows - the whole room filled with them.  Let's say your AC at level 2 is 20, because you somehow powerbuilt yourself to hell.  Good for you!  Well, the 'small creatures' have a +7 AB, and there's likely a half-dozen to a dozen of those guys walking about, each only needing to roll a 13 to hit you.  Meanwhile, the 'small humanoids' have a +5 bonus, so while they need a 15 to hit you, remember there's a ton of those guys, and they're ranged.  In other words, your powerbuilt high AC barbarian with ridiculously high hitpoints for your level is dead unless you kill everything in that cave within a few rounds.  You're playing anything that's NOT a 20 con dwarf with 20 AC out of the box, you'd better have that assassin imp familiar.

The problem is the sheer number of stuff you expect lowbies to fight.  True lowbies, fresh from the mists, tend to have only a few hit points, low ACs, tiny ABs, very few spells, and if they have animal companions or familiars, those have been made useless (with one noted exception).  Even if their enemies need 20s to hit them, surrounded by 20 of them they can expect to be hit EVERY ROUND.  And the enemies NEVER need a 20 to hit them.

My suggestion?  Revamp the low-level dungeons.  I'm talking the really low level ones, like the 'small creature' cave and the 'fire beetles'.  Even the sewers with their kajillions of rat-swarms, or at least certain areas which are intended to be navigable to low levels (like places on the way to the drain for lowbie caliban).  Their CR is stupid for how dead they'll make you, but more importantly both of these dungeons have enormous swarms present throughout them.  Reduce the number in the swarms, and make their CR a little higher.  Even if you make the enemies tougher (which I honestly don't think is needed considering who these are intended for) just having less of them will make things SO much more manageable.  There's only a handful of dungeons that fit this category, so it shouldn't be too difficult to overhaul, and it would do wonders for improving the first impression new players have when they get here.  I'd include the thoul cave among those to fix, but I'm not sure if that's intended to be a lowbie dungeon or just a place for high levels to blast everything in sight with ease while collecting cave-fungus for herbalism.  I don't think I've ever had a small team of ~ level 4s successfully get through the thouls on any spawn greater than bats.

Creatures are worth significantly more XP when in larger groups. Thouls is a little hard, I'll agree, but thats because of the regen + acid arrows for the dungeon only being a CR4. When you have 4-5 casters in the same room that all fireball + acid arrow, If you had evasion, you don't have enough HP for acid arrows, and if you didn't have evasion, you probably died to the fireballs.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Feronius on November 04, 2013, 11:34:24 PM
Not so much about erroneous or ineffective creatures, but with the layout of the forums it's difficult to decide where to talk about this.

Low level dungeons, across the board, need to be addressed.  The risk vs reward for 'low level' dungeons such as the gremishka and bahkna rahkna cave (which anyone who hasn't been here for years knows only as the cave of 'small creatures' and 'small humanoids'... but that's for another topic) have CR .25 to CR 1 creatures.  Which is fine, but they easily have 20 of these.  That's a problem.  See, unless you're making a character at the same time as a couple of friends, you'll probably be alone when low enough level to actually go into these dungeons.

So let's say you're a dwarven barbarian with 20 con.  You get 34 hitpoints, holy hot-damn!  The 'small humanoids' easily do 5 damage on a non-crit.  So you'll be dead in 7 hits.  You walk into the main room, and the little mosnters are armed with bows and arrows - the whole room filled with them.  Let's say your AC at level 2 is 20, because you somehow powerbuilt yourself to hell.  Good for you!  Well, the 'small creatures' have a +7 AB, and there's likely a half-dozen to a dozen of those guys walking about, each only needing to roll a 13 to hit you.  Meanwhile, the 'small humanoids' have a +5 bonus, so while they need a 15 to hit you, remember there's a ton of those guys, and they're ranged.  In other words, your powerbuilt high AC barbarian with ridiculously high hitpoints for your level is dead unless you kill everything in that cave within a few rounds.  You're playing anything that's NOT a 20 con dwarf with 20 AC out of the box, you'd better have that assassin imp familiar.

The problem is the sheer number of stuff you expect lowbies to fight.  True lowbies, fresh from the mists, tend to have only a few hit points, low ACs, tiny ABs, very few spells, and if they have animal companions or familiars, those have been made useless (with one noted exception).  Even if their enemies need 20s to hit them, surrounded by 20 of them they can expect to be hit EVERY ROUND.  And the enemies NEVER need a 20 to hit them.

My suggestion?  Revamp the low-level dungeons.  I'm talking the really low level ones, like the 'small creature' cave and the 'fire beetles'.  Even the sewers with their kajillions of rat-swarms, or at least certain areas which are intended to be navigable to low levels (like places on the way to the drain for lowbie caliban).  Their CR is stupid for how dead they'll make you, but more importantly both of these dungeons have enormous swarms present throughout them.  Reduce the number in the swarms, and make their CR a little higher.  Even if you make the enemies tougher (which I honestly don't think is needed considering who these are intended for) just having less of them will make things SO much more manageable.  There's only a handful of dungeons that fit this category, so it shouldn't be too difficult to overhaul, and it would do wonders for improving the first impression new players have when they get here.  I'd include the thoul cave among those to fix, but I'm not sure if that's intended to be a lowbie dungeon or just a place for high levels to blast everything in sight with ease while collecting cave-fungus for herbalism.  I don't think I've ever had a small team of ~ level 4s successfully get through the thouls on any spawn greater than bats.

Those are some very good points, considering those places are meant for newly created characters that are still very ill equipped to survive.
And unless you happen to be in a larger group or with the exact right class(es) and (power)builds, you can't really stand much of a chance.

You can make up for a lot with gear, items, etc. But the areas mentioned are intended for new players and characters who haven't got the wits or means to acquire any of that yet.
We all know this server is supposed to have a steep learning curve, but those sound like solid suggestions on improving the gameplay value without compromising the overall experience.



Something also worth considering is to tune down the max spawn encounters in low level areas, as the level range (difference in level requirements between low and high spawns) of dungeons is absurdly broad sometimes. For example, both the Vallaki Sewers and the Morninglord Crypts fluctuate between challenges for a level 2 party when on the lowest spawns. And encounters that I've seen parties including fully buffed level 10 or higher members struggle with when on max spawn. That's an extreme difference.
(This thread appears to be more about "too effective creatures" than "ineffective", but yeah. Some of the max spawn mobs are seriously out of place for the intended target audience of the respective areas.)

The additional bonus is that this coincedentally makes it less appealing for higher level players to farm lower level dungeons.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: respawnaholic on November 06, 2013, 08:56:08 AM
Not so much about erroneous or ineffective creatures, but with the layout of the forums it's difficult to decide where to talk about this.

Low level dungeons, across the board, need to be addressed.  The risk vs reward for 'low level' dungeons such as the gremishka and bahkna rahkna cave (which anyone who hasn't been here for years knows only as the cave of 'small creatures' and 'small humanoids'... but that's for another topic) have CR .25 to CR 1 creatures.  Which is fine, but they easily have 20 of these.  That's a problem.  See, unless you're making a character at the same time as a couple of friends, you'll probably be alone when low enough level to actually go into these dungeons.

So let's say you're a dwarven barbarian with 20 con.  You get 34 hitpoints, holy hot-damn!  The 'small humanoids' easily do 5 damage on a non-crit.  So you'll be dead in 7 hits.  You walk into the main room, and the little mosnters are armed with bows and arrows - the whole room filled with them.  Let's say your AC at level 2 is 20, because you somehow powerbuilt yourself to hell.  Good for you!  Well, the 'small creatures' have a +7 AB, and there's likely a half-dozen to a dozen of those guys walking about, each only needing to roll a 13 to hit you.  Meanwhile, the 'small humanoids' have a +5 bonus, so while they need a 15 to hit you, remember there's a ton of those guys, and they're ranged.  In other words, your powerbuilt high AC barbarian with ridiculously high hitpoints for your level is dead unless you kill everything in that cave within a few rounds.  You're playing anything that's NOT a 20 con dwarf with 20 AC out of the box, you'd better have that assassin imp familiar.

The problem is the sheer number of stuff you expect lowbies to fight.  True lowbies, fresh from the mists, tend to have only a few hit points, low ACs, tiny ABs, very few spells, and if they have animal companions or familiars, those have been made useless (with one noted exception).  Even if their enemies need 20s to hit them, surrounded by 20 of them they can expect to be hit EVERY ROUND.  And the enemies NEVER need a 20 to hit them.

My suggestion?  Revamp the low-level dungeons.  I'm talking the really low level ones, like the 'small creature' cave and the 'fire beetles'.  Even the sewers with their kajillions of rat-swarms, or at least certain areas which are intended to be navigable to low levels (like places on the way to the drain for lowbie caliban).  Their CR is stupid for how dead they'll make you, but more importantly both of these dungeons have enormous swarms present throughout them.  Reduce the number in the swarms, and make their CR a little higher.  Even if you make the enemies tougher (which I honestly don't think is needed considering who these are intended for) just having less of them will make things SO much more manageable.  There's only a handful of dungeons that fit this category, so it shouldn't be too difficult to overhaul, and it would do wonders for improving the first impression new players have when they get here.  I'd include the thoul cave among those to fix, but I'm not sure if that's intended to be a lowbie dungeon or just a place for high levels to blast everything in sight with ease while collecting cave-fungus for herbalism.  I don't think I've ever had a small team of ~ level 4s successfully get through the thouls on any spawn greater than bats.

Those are some very good points, considering those places are meant for newly created characters that are still very ill equipped to survive.
And unless you happen to be in a larger group or with the exact right class(es) and (power)builds, you can't really stand much of a chance.

You can make up for a lot with gear, items, etc. But the areas mentioned are intended for new players and characters who haven't got the wits or means to acquire any of that yet.
We all know this server is supposed to have a steep learning curve, but those sound like solid suggestions on improving the gameplay value without compromising the overall experience.



Something also worth considering is to tune down the max spawn encounters in low level areas, as the level range (difference in level requirements between low and high spawns) of dungeons is absurdly broad sometimes. For example, both the Vallaki Sewers and the Morninglord Crypts fluctuate between challenges for a level 2 party when on the lowest spawns. And encounters that I've seen parties including fully buffed level 10 or higher members struggle with when on max spawn. That's an extreme difference.
(This thread appears to be more about "too effective creatures" than "ineffective", but yeah. Some of the max spawn mobs are seriously out of place for the intended target audience of the respective areas.)

The additional bonus is that this coincedentally makes it less appealing for higher level players to farm lower level dungeons.

This isn't really a direct fix for what you've mentioned, but one of the reasons the new jobs exist in town was to give new characters the opportunity to gain some gold and easy experience before trying something like the Morninglord Crypts. A single trip to Krofburg and back delivering can net you somewhere between 200 and 1200 gold depenting on what you carry there and back. you can probably level a new character from 2 to 3 in as few as 5 or 6 trips. Ive managed to get a character up to level 5 doing nothing but trips to Krofburg and back. If anything I would argue that the grimiska caves near the visanti camps are completely redundant since the risk vs reward relative to a single trip to Krofburg is laughable.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bad_Bud on November 16, 2013, 05:04:27 PM
Gelugons, Cornugons, Hamatulas, Malebranches, and (possibly) Dogai are all worth less experience than they are challenging for.  It would be nice to see these enemies raised to a higher level than desert trolls or mummies.  The reason it should be higher is because the mummies and such come in absolutely massive groups, and while the outsiders in Perfidus are more dangerous, they come in smaller groups.  So equal CR would still not make them worth fighting for experience.  As it is, these things are mostly just fought for hearts, or as a way into the temple itself.  I'd like to see the hardest enemies on the server be on par in experience reward with everything else.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Norture on November 19, 2013, 03:11:18 PM
Gelugons, Cornugons, Hamatulas, Malebranches, and (possibly) Dogai are all worth less experience than they are challenging for.  It would be nice to see these enemies raised to a higher level than desert trolls or mummies.  The reason it should be higher is because the mummies and such come in absolutely massive groups, and while the outsiders in Perfidus are more dangerous, they come in smaller groups.  So equal CR would still not make them worth fighting for experience.  As it is, these things are mostly just fought for hearts, or as a way into the temple itself.  I'd like to see the hardest enemies on the server be on par in experience reward with everything else.

You could say the same thing about the silver mine, it doesn't even have loot other than a few low-end crumbs.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bad_Bud on November 19, 2013, 03:22:05 PM
Gelugons, Cornugons, Hamatulas, Malebranches, and (possibly) Dogai are all worth less experience than they are challenging for.  It would be nice to see these enemies raised to a higher level than desert trolls or mummies.  The reason it should be higher is because the mummies and such come in absolutely massive groups, and while the outsiders in Perfidus are more dangerous, they come in smaller groups.  So equal CR would still not make them worth fighting for experience.  As it is, these things are mostly just fought for hearts, or as a way into the temple itself.  I'd like to see the hardest enemies on the server be on par in experience reward with everything else.

You could say the same thing about the silver mine, it doesn't even have loot other than a few low-end crumbs.

Considering the demand for silver has plummeted since the inclusion of enchanting, I agree there is little reason to enter that mine.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on December 06, 2013, 03:27:40 AM
Update on the needlemen: I've given them this ability instead: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Shards_bolt

It's less powerful, both in HD for damage (d6 instead of d8), and that it's only a single shot and a single target. It's less accurate looking, but it should bring them more in line for their CR.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: monsinyana on December 09, 2013, 06:30:40 PM
I think we need a 'Day of the Needlemen' event Bluebomber!
                                            (Triffids)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maric Arnand on December 18, 2013, 12:51:28 PM
Not sure if they are suposed to be this way or not, but it seems the green oozes are not immune to acid damage. Not sure on the others as I usaly avoid them like the plauge. Black Puddings [shudder]
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on December 18, 2013, 07:21:30 PM
Not sure if they are suposed to be this way or not, but it seems the green oozes are not immune to acid damage. Not sure on the others as I usaly avoid them like the plauge. Black Puddings [shudder]

Yeah, they should be immune to acid. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll get them fixed.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: swbf2lord on December 22, 2013, 12:50:40 PM
Not sure if they are suposed to be this way or not, but it seems the green oozes are not immune to acid damage. Not sure on the others as I usaly avoid them like the plauge. Black Puddings [shudder]

Yeah, they should be immune to acid. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll get them fixed.

On a related note, why aren't fiendish aberrations immune to acid? They are to cold, but not acid. Strange because, they're acidic.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on December 22, 2013, 02:18:41 PM
Actually, I checked the d20 SRD and no oozes are immune to acid damage, even though they deal it. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#oozeType So the green slimes don't need fixing.

As for the fiendish aberrations, I don't know. They're an original/unique creation, so you'd have to ask the person who made them.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Dread on January 22, 2014, 10:50:14 PM
Alpha deep forest wolves should have their CR raised.

Those things can party-wipe even high level groups, if they're not careful.

Even if it's just by a little bit.

Pls.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Geiger on January 22, 2014, 11:05:06 PM
Alpha deep forest wolves should have their CR raised.

Those things can party-wipe even high level groups, if they're not careful.

Even if it's just by a little bit.

Pls.

Especially the ones that go werewolf. The werewolf they turn into has about 20 AB, can KD  and called shot like no tomorrow, and does about 30 damage a hit.

It will give you an "not entirely idle" for killing three of them and nearly having a TPK at around level 12.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Dumas on January 22, 2014, 11:09:52 PM
They are terribly tough for all of my characters!  I think they should be worth a bit more... Most of the time, the not thing to do is just run. Killing should be more rewarding, I think.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: READY_PLAYER_ONE on January 22, 2014, 11:16:27 PM
Alpha deep forest wolves should have their CR raised.

Those things can party-wipe even high level groups, if they're not careful.

Even if it's just by a little bit.

Pls.

+1
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on January 23, 2014, 12:28:08 PM
Agreed, but I feel there are a lot of things that could use a CR nudge. Like werefoxes. [shudders]
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ercvadasz on January 23, 2014, 04:48:44 PM
Alpha deep forest wolves should have their CR raised.

Those things can party-wipe even high level groups, if they're not careful.

Even if it's just by a little bit.

Pls.

Actually they are far less problematic than skeleton knights who use GS or Falchion.
The deep forest alpha is CR 11 so quite high allready. It is the creature that makes HOLD animal usefull:)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: swbf2lord on January 23, 2014, 05:03:47 PM
Alpha deep forest wolves should have their CR raised.

Those things can party-wipe even high level groups, if they're not careful.

Even if it's just by a little bit.

Pls.

Actually they are far less problematic than skeleton knights who use GS or Falchion.
The deep forest alpha is CR 11 so quite high allready. It is the creature that makes HOLD animal usefull:)

The only reason skeleton knights are more dangerous is because they roll 20s every few seconds. Which, may be denied, but from experience, I know it to be true.

The Deep Forest Alpha Wolf is deadly, much more so than the knights, other than that bug. CR 11? That's low for how powerful it is.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Troukk on January 23, 2014, 05:52:55 PM
Alpha deep forest wolves should have their CR raised.

Those things can party-wipe even high level groups, if they're not careful.

Even if it's just by a little bit.

Pls.

Actually they are far less problematic than skeleton knights who use GS or Falchion.
The deep forest alpha is CR 11 so quite high allready. It is the creature that makes HOLD animal usefull:)

The only reason skeleton knights are more dangerous is because they roll 20s every few seconds. Which, may be denied, but from experience, I know it to be true.

The Deep Forest Alpha Wolf is deadly, much more so than the knights, other than that bug. CR 11? That's low for how powerful it is.

That is a common misconception. Skeletons don't roll more 20s than everyone else. They crit more because they use weapons with high crit range and some have improved crit as a feat, which expands the crit range even more.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Feronius on January 23, 2014, 05:54:30 PM
Alpha deep forest wolves should have their CR raised.

Those things can party-wipe even high level groups, if they're not careful.

Even if it's just by a little bit.

Pls.

Actually they are far less problematic than skeleton knights who use GS or Falchion.
The deep forest alpha is CR 11 so quite high allready. It is the creature that makes HOLD animal usefull:)

The only reason skeleton knights are more dangerous is because they roll 20s every few seconds. Which, may be denied, but from experience, I know it to be true.

The Deep Forest Alpha Wolf is deadly, much more so than the knights, other than that bug. CR 11? That's low for how powerful it is.

Also, don't forget the fact they are sneaky buggers. Both Deep Forest Alpha Wolf and Skeleton Knights can use a bit of a CR increase in my eyes.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: swbf2lord on January 23, 2014, 05:54:52 PM
Alpha deep forest wolves should have their CR raised.

Those things can party-wipe even high level groups, if they're not careful.

Even if it's just by a little bit.

Pls.

Actually they are far less problematic than skeleton knights who use GS or Falchion.
The deep forest alpha is CR 11 so quite high allready. It is the creature that makes HOLD animal usefull:)

The only reason skeleton knights are more dangerous is because they roll 20s every few seconds. Which, may be denied, but from experience, I know it to be true.

The Deep Forest Alpha Wolf is deadly, much more so than the knights, other than that bug. CR 11? That's low for how powerful it is.

That is a common misconception. Skeletons don't roll more 20s than everyone else. They crit more because they use weapons with high crit range and some have improved crit as a feat, which expands the crit range even more.

I'm afraid you're wrong there, Troukk. I'm looking specifically at the log, and the attack roll. Not the critical threat range. That would mean that they roll 20s more than anyone else. Just last night I was in a group where they rolled them countlessly, hits. Not critical hits, but hits. Mobs rolling 20s aren't auto-crits, so I do realize what I'm saying.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Geiger on January 23, 2014, 06:36:44 PM
The alpha deeps don't need nerf'd, their CR just needs raised so they're worth the fight outside of self-preservation. lol.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ercvadasz on January 24, 2014, 12:47:03 AM
Actulally Troukk and swbf2lord both of you are correct.

They do tend to roll a lot of 20-s, and they do have the enhanced critical range.
Also both the DFWA and the SK have pa and i think IPA as well. These two the massive amount of crits they land, and the IPA is what makes them dangerous.
However usually you ahve to fight a skeleton knight in a less open area, which makes them in my oppinion harder to kill.
A deep forest alpha can be more easily disposed of if you have a spotter in group. Also their skins grant 44 gp, not to mention useable leather for midlow level.
So i think their CR needs not be changed. With carefull planning a group of level 3-s ( 3 level 3-s) can dispose of them.
I had lead some hunting parties to kill deep forest wolves in the last NCW. And i still on occasions lead new low level folks and show them how you can dispose of them with the least risk.
The only thing that is annoying in them is the high demand of animal empahty which is required to befriend them, which with an CR raise would become even higher, and their saves. (They have if i recall well +4 or +6 to will save, makeing them quite hard to be held via hold animal spell.)
I think the deep forest alpha is quite fitting for it's range. If you start to up it's CR, then thereafter quite a chain of monsters CR should be raised.
Since this creature requires a spotter to be easily fended off, whereas certain other creatures require in game ITEMS, or certain spells. (Magic weapon, magic varnihs +1 items etc.)
So actually i woudl leave this creatures CR where it is at, this is perhaps one of the FEW creatures on the server, that allows for nature kind of classes to shine a bit. (especially rangers)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: swbf2lord on January 24, 2014, 01:41:45 AM
Actulally Troukk and swbf2lord both of you are correct.

They do tend to roll a lot of 20-s, and they do have the enhanced critical range.
Also both the DFWA and the SK have pa and i think IPA as well. These two the massive amount of crits they land, and the IPA is what makes them dangerous.
However usually you ahve to fight a skeleton knight in a less open area, which makes them in my oppinion harder to kill.
A deep forest alpha can be more easily disposed of if you have a spotter in group. Also their skins grant 44 gp, not to mention useable leather for midlow level.
So i think their CR needs not be changed. With carefull planning a group of level 3-s ( 3 level 3-s) can dispose of them.
I had lead some hunting parties to kill deep forest wolves in the last NCW. And i still on occasions lead new low level folks and show them how you can dispose of them with the least risk.
The only thing that is annoying in them is the high demand of animal empahty which is required to befriend them, which with an CR raise would become even higher, and their saves. (They have if i recall well +4 or +6 to will save, makeing them quite hard to be held via hold animal spell.)
I think the deep forest alpha is quite fitting for it's range. If you start to up it's CR, then thereafter quite a chain of monsters CR should be raised.
Since this creature requires a spotter to be easily fended off, whereas certain other creatures require in game ITEMS, or certain spells. (Magic weapon, magic varnihs +1 items etc.)
So actually i woudl leave this creatures CR where it is at, this is perhaps one of the FEW creatures on the server, that allows for nature kind of classes to shine a bit. (especially rangers)

CR referring to the individual strength of the mob though. A single skeleton knight isn't as tough as a single Alpha. While the environment might make the skeleton knights more dangerous (plus you're always fighting them in a group), individually, one-on-one, the Alpha is much more difficult.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on January 24, 2014, 02:05:30 AM
As of next update, the wolves will be renamed and reorganized. They'll have the same CRs, but the names, appearance and crafting drops will be slightly altered, and the areas they spawn in will be altered as well.

Emaciated Wolves will become normal wolves (since a normal, full-strength wolf should only be CR1 in D&D), and the high-spawn upgrade will be an Advanced Wolf, a slightly resized wolf.

Deep Forest Wolves will become Advanced Worgs (and drop worg pelts, as well as having their creature type changed to magical beast), and will be a high spawn version of a normal worg spawn.

Deep Forest Alpha Wolves will become Dire Wolf Pack Leaders (with the appearance changed to a slightly larger dire wolf) and will be high spawn version of a normal dire wolf spawn. Dire wolf spawns will mostly be limited to the areas north of Lake Zarovich and around the Village of Barovia.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: RedwizardD on January 24, 2014, 03:17:22 AM
Could the name be kept 'Deep Forest Wolf' even if it's just shifted to the bigger normal wolves? It sounds more intimidating than 'advanced wolf' or 'dire wolf pack leader.'
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: swbf2lord on January 24, 2014, 03:23:56 AM
Could the name be kept 'Deep Forest Wolf' even if it's just shifted to the bigger normal wolves? It sounds more intimidating than 'advanced wolf' or 'dire wolf pack leader.'

Not to mention, "Deep Forest Wolf" sounds more engaging.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Dread on January 24, 2014, 03:57:31 AM
I don't know, I rather like the change. They'll be confined to where they need to be, and plus you get something for killing them outside your own skin. So that's good in my book. Thanks, Blue.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: APorg on January 24, 2014, 07:15:53 AM
Could the name be kept 'Deep Forest Wolf' even if it's just shifted to the bigger normal wolves? It sounds more intimidating than 'advanced wolf' or 'dire wolf pack leader.'

Not to mention, "Deep Forest Wolf" sounds more engaging.

At the very least, perhaps "Dangerous" is a better than "Advanced"? Advanced makes them sound like they've been cybernetically enhanced...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on January 24, 2014, 07:51:29 AM
"Deep forest alpha" is going away as a name and is not coming back. It is far too specific and modern. It sounds like something a modern biologist would come up with.

"Advanced" might not be the best descriptor, but it is the standard term in D&D for a monster that has in advanced in levels and hit dice over the standard monster. It also sounded better than "strong", "tough", or "dangerous".
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Kendaric on January 24, 2014, 08:39:31 AM
"Deep forest alpha" is going away as a name and is not coming back. It is far too specific and modern. It sounds like something a modern biologist would come up with.

"Advanced" might not be the best descriptor, but it is the standard term in D&D for a monster that has in advanced in levels and hit dice over the standard monster. It also sounded better than "strong", "tough", or "dangerous".

"Large" might work as a descriptor, since the stronger wolves will be slightly larger. "Advanced" definitely sounds too modern as well.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on January 24, 2014, 09:14:05 AM
"Deep forest alpha" is going away as a name and is not coming back. It is far too specific and modern. It sounds like something a modern biologist would come up with.

"Advanced" might not be the best descriptor, but it is the standard term in D&D for a monster that has in advanced in levels and hit dice over the standard monster. It also sounded better than "strong", "tough", or "dangerous".

"Large" might work as a descriptor, since the stronger wolves will be slightly larger. "Advanced" definitely sounds too modern as well.
"Large" works. It will have to wait until the update after next, though.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Knas on January 24, 2014, 07:30:06 PM
Advanced makes me cringe!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bad_Bud on January 24, 2014, 08:17:15 PM
How about "Great" Deep Forest Wolf?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Feronius on January 24, 2014, 08:51:30 PM
How about "Great" Deep Forest Wolf?

I'm pretty sure that with "too specific" they meant the Deep Forest reference, not the Alpha bit.
Fully support the use of "Large" over "Advanced" by the way, it sounds much more fitting.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bad_Bud on January 24, 2014, 08:52:29 PM
 :(
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on January 24, 2014, 10:10:45 PM
Right the deep forest part was out of place. Not all wolves spawn in forests, for one, and there was a real lack of worg and dire wolf spawns when both should be common. There were also far too many redundant wolf spawns in the palette with only a name that was different. We really don't have the luxury of space for 19 of the same creature with slightly different names that signify a hyper-specific location and/or sub-sub-sub-species. Especially since in a medieval society, they would give the wolves more universal names. They wouldn't care whether a wolf was from a forest or mountain or meadow, so why would they name them as such?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Meriana on January 25, 2014, 02:46:27 AM
Especially since in a medieval society, they would give the wolves more universal names. They wouldn't care whether a wolf was from a forest or mountain or meadow, so why would they name them as such?

Does the average person care now?  :lol:

My only personal "discerning" skills in terms of wolves is: "wow! White! Must be tundra wolf!" (which may or may not be the case)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: INSTINCT92 on February 04, 2014, 04:08:11 PM
Not sure if this is where to put this, but will'o'wisps are immune to nearly 'all' magic, and pretty much slaughtered.
And just an opinion but these 'advanced wolf'ves running about using KD spam is going to make things hella hard for low level and new players..
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 04, 2014, 05:00:52 PM
Not sure if this is where to put this, but will'o'wisps are immune to nearly 'all' magic, and pretty much slaughtered.
I don't understand this statement. Are you saying they're immune to magic and getting slaughtered, or that their immunity to magic made them able to slaughter your group?

Quote
And just an opinion but these 'advanced wolf'ves running about using KD spam is going to make things hella hard for low level and new players..
They aren't new; the only thing that has changed is their name and appearance. Mechanically they are the same as they have been for many years under the name and appearance of a normal wolf.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: INSTINCT92 on February 04, 2014, 05:57:49 PM
they're immune to magic and getting slaughtered, or that their immunity to magic made them able to slaughter your group <-- This

Quote
And just an opinion but these 'advanced wolf'ves running about using KD spam is going to make things hella hard for low level and new players..
They aren't new; the only thing that has changed is their name and appearance. Mechanically they are the same as they have been for many years under the name and appearance of a normal wolf.
Fair enough, just never seen them knock down spam the way they did to my unfortunate mage recently..
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 04, 2014, 06:03:57 PM
they're immune to magic and getting slaughtered, or that their immunity to magic made them able to slaughter your group
<-- This
Which? The second one? So they slaughtered your group?

BTW: I edited your post to fix your quote tags ;)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Gideon on February 04, 2014, 06:15:52 PM
As a historian, I feel compelled to point out (with very little discernible point or purpose) that medievals were very concerned with ideas of classification and quantification. They'd have six names for every precise sort of wolf, and they wouldn't fit into any schema or particular order.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Lady Dwayna on February 04, 2014, 07:53:17 PM
Not sure if this is where to put this, but will'o'wisps are immune to nearly 'all' magic, and pretty much slaughtered.
And just an opinion but these 'advanced wolf'ves running about using KD spam is going to make things hella hard for low level and new players..

To clarify this for you blue

The will'o'wisps and Great are impervious to nearly all magic/elements it seems. I threw acid, fire, ice at it and took no damage. I threw issacs missles at it, immune, and Instinct threw even stronger spells and nothing. They pretty much nearly wiped us out even after the entirety of our barrage.

As for the wolves. I've been attacked by the emaciated and the stronger, including worgs and I've never been KD'd by them, but today one "Advanced wolf" was spamming it.


Hope that clears things up
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 04, 2014, 09:29:17 PM
Not sure if this is where to put this, but will'o'wisps are immune to nearly 'all' magic, and pretty much slaughtered.
And just an opinion but these 'advanced wolf'ves running about using KD spam is going to make things hella hard for low level and new players..

To clarify this for you blue

The will'o'wisps and Great are impervious to nearly all magic/elements it seems. I threw acid, fire, ice at it and took no damage. I threw issacs missles at it, immune, and Instinct threw even stronger spells and nothing. They pretty much nearly wiped us out even after the entirety of our barrage.
That's normal for will-o'-wisps and they've been that way on the server for years.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/willOWisp.htm
Quote
Immunity to Magic (Ex)
A will-o’-wisp is immune to most spells or spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance, except magic missile and maze.
I can perhaps look into a different way to implement this ability than what is being used now, however, since its spell resistance will usually protect it from magic missiles
Quote
As for the wolves. I've been attacked by the emaciated and the stronger, including worgs and I've never been KD'd by them, but today one "Advanced wolf" was spamming it.


Hope that clears things up
Again, they've had that feat for a very long time. The only changes made were the name (from "wolf" to "advanced wolf") and the size (scaled larger by 10%).
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bad_Bud on February 04, 2014, 10:18:07 PM
If Will-O-Wisps are a problem for you, you should do some research and look for spells that do not allow for spell resistance, such as Evard's Black Tentacles.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Chaoshawk on February 06, 2014, 12:38:29 PM
I don't know, improved critical feat with a weapon seems to work fine for me.  :lol:

Non-magical solutions are always there.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: de_reguer on January 27, 2015, 11:12:50 AM
This isn't so much a comment on their effectiveness so much as curiosity, but why do the mechanical golems in the Alhoon Layer drop unusable bars of steel. I was wondering if maybe the steel bar could be made so it can be smelted down into several ingots of steel or maybe swap out the steel bar with an electrical essence since they tend to shoot off relatively powerful lightning bolts and there's a bit of a shortage of creatures that drop electrical essences anyway. Just an idea.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Claymora on February 11, 2015, 03:05:06 AM
This isn't so much a comment on their effectiveness so much as curiosity, but why do the mechanical golems in the Alhoon Layer drop unusable bars of steel. I was wondering if maybe the steel bar could be made so it can be smelted down into several ingots of steel or maybe swap out the steel bar with an electrical essence since they tend to shoot off relatively powerful lightning bolts and there's a bit of a shortage of creatures that drop electrical essences anyway. Just an idea.

Or they could just CNR iron or steel ingots?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Purist on February 11, 2015, 06:03:37 AM
Problems with Will-O-Whispers? Get a melee fighter(not a cleric) in the party. I've had few problems with Will-O's while playing my paladin. Pure casters aren't supposed to win always, right?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: de_reguer on April 07, 2015, 08:45:20 PM
GREATER Balisks have a DC of 13 vs petrification. Thats actually lower than the DC for a Bodak's death gaze. I know not every person who comes across them is going to be a fighter but that seems kind of low given that most players wandering around Hazlan tend to be mid level characters.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nemesis 24 on April 08, 2015, 03:55:18 PM
The reason for the baslisks, I'd say, is because while death magic can be protected against, there is no defense spell against petrification.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Syied on May 20, 2015, 09:16:26 PM
Giant weasels! I like the idea of bleed effects and damage over time. However, -holy -crap.-

There are giant weasels in kobold caves, which are something of a lowbie staple dungeon. I'm still okay with bleeding damage in lowbie dungeons, but the disorienting, thematically inconsistent element is that their bleed damage continues to very, very quickly whittle you down once you've been knocked unconscious/below 1. My PC was knocked to 0 (by the bleed, in fact, I think) and then hopelessly bled out along with her three other party members. Had the bleed been the sort to stop at 0, it might not have been a total party wipe - but even that's not truly important. What I find important is that Ravenloft's system for handling dying, which I like very much, does not align with what happens when you die to bleeding damage like this.

Ravenloft's dying system is nicely-developed, and I don't think this kind of bleeding damage is healthy for the expectations of new players.

I'm not sure if this necessarily belongs in" Erroneous and ineffective creatures.", but it certainly strikes me as "erroneous" given the way dying works in Ravenloft in all other cases (in my experience).
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: McNastea on May 20, 2015, 10:26:33 PM
Giant weasels! I like the idea of bleed effects and damage over time. However, -holy -crap.-

There are giant weasels in kobold caves, which are something of a lowbie staple dungeon. I'm still okay with bleeding damage in lowbie dungeons, but the disorienting, thematically inconsistent element is that their bleed damage continues to very, very quickly whittle you down once you've been knocked unconscious/below 1. My PC was knocked to 0 (by the bleed, in fact, I think) and then hopelessly bled out along with her three other party members. Had the bleed been the sort to stop at 0, it might not have been a total party wipe - but even that's not truly important. What I find important is that Ravenloft's system for handling dying, which I like very much, does not align with what happens when you die to bleeding damage like this.

Ravenloft's dying system is nicely-developed, and I don't think this kind of bleeding damage is healthy for the expectations of new players.

I'm not sure if this necessarily belongs in" Erroneous and ineffective creatures.", but it certainly strikes me as "erroneous" given the way dying works in Ravenloft in all other cases (in my experience).

I find it strange that bleed dmg is only found on the lowest lvl dungeons (well i guess swamp leeches do it too actually) I think they'd be better off in mid to high level dungeons with varying strength.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on May 20, 2015, 10:31:51 PM
Giant weasels! I like the idea of bleed effects and damage over time. However, -holy -crap.-

There are giant weasels in kobold caves, which are something of a lowbie staple dungeon. I'm still okay with bleeding damage in lowbie dungeons, but the disorienting, thematically inconsistent element is that their bleed damage continues to very, very quickly whittle you down once you've been knocked unconscious/below 1. My PC was knocked to 0 (by the bleed, in fact, I think) and then hopelessly bled out along with her three other party members. Had the bleed been the sort to stop at 0, it might not have been a total party wipe - but even that's not truly important. What I find important is that Ravenloft's system for handling dying, which I like very much, does not align with what happens when you die to bleeding damage like this.

Ravenloft's dying system is nicely-developed, and I don't think this kind of bleeding damage is healthy for the expectations of new players.

I'm not sure if this necessarily belongs in" Erroneous and ineffective creatures.", but it certainly strikes me as "erroneous" given the way dying works in Ravenloft in all other cases (in my experience).

That looks like an oversight to me. I'll check to see if we can stop the Bleeding effect once the PC is down.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: NWN_lovableweremink on May 20, 2015, 10:49:39 PM
SO, I found one but it isn't a encounter monster, it's a summon. The level 4 spell shadow conjuration will summon a level 7 shadow fiend. the level 6 spell shades will also summon a level 7 shadow fiend. the difference, summoning via the 6th level spell lasts 2 rounds shorter.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Merry Munchkin on May 22, 2015, 10:32:21 PM
SO, I found one but it isn't a encounter monster, it's a summon. The level 4 spell shadow conjuration will summon a level 7 shadow fiend. the level 6 spell shades will also summon a level 7 shadow fiend. the difference, summoning via the 6th level spell lasts 2 rounds shorter.

If I am not mistaken, both default spells use the exact same "summon shadow" subspell, and the type of summon you get is based solely on caster level.  Thus, if the same caster uses both spells, he or she should summon the exact same critter either way.  The durations for both should also be identical.  So what you are describing isn't really a "bug" per se -- that is actually the intended outcome (however strange that may seem).  The real difference between the two spells is the other types of subspells they can generate.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Cursed Ink on May 26, 2015, 08:13:20 PM
That looks like an oversight to me. I'll check to see if we can stop the Bleeding effect once the PC is down.

Another thing I've noticed in that cave is that unlike other older dungeons the monsters do not give you that few moments of courtesy once your recover from death to book it.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Feronius on May 26, 2015, 08:17:05 PM
That looks like an oversight to me. I'll check to see if we can stop the Bleeding effect once the PC is down.

Another thing I've noticed in that cave is that unlike other older dungeons the monsters do not give you that few moments of courtesy once your recover from death to book it.

I think this might be an AI related bug in general. We experienced the same thing in the fire beetle caverns recently, remember? They hardly waited a single round before attacking.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: qwertyuioppp on July 13, 2015, 12:44:46 AM
I think Moor Men Bewitchers, Broken Ones, and Greater Broken Ones might be messed up. They'll go into wild shape pretty much immediately in every encounter, and then start casting from their spell list, but they must have spell failure when shaped, because they'll botch every single spell. They'll just keep on casting and casting and casting, even though their spells aren't firing, until they're killed, effectively making them bystanders in every fight. I don't think I've ever seen one get a proper spell off against my parties; it seems like wild shape is their number one priority.

Also, they're all apparently vulnerable to Animal Empathy, when wild shaped, I'm not sure if that's intentional.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: respawnaholic on July 13, 2015, 12:51:47 AM
shadows in the sullen woods can take damage from negative varnished dipped weapons. More absurdly they can take damage even from regular weapons dipped in negative varnishes.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Blight on December 08, 2016, 07:21:04 PM
There's an odd getup going on with port calibans. The ones that are unarmed provoke attacks of opportunities as intended, but the armed calibans get free sneak attacks whenever a pc automatically deals out that AoO.

Basically, the armed calibans are getting free sneak attacks when they shouldn't be.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on January 06, 2017, 10:15:13 AM
There's an odd getup going on with port calibans. The ones that are unarmed provoke attacks of opportunities as intended, but the armed calibans get free sneak attacks whenever a pc automatically deals out that AoO.

Basically, the armed calibans are getting free sneak attacks when they shouldn't be.

I'll give the calibans Improved Unarmed Strike, which will solve both problems at once.  :twisted:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Blight on February 01, 2017, 07:16:42 PM
There's an odd getup going on with port calibans. The ones that are unarmed provoke attacks of opportunities as intended, but the armed calibans get free sneak attacks whenever a pc automatically deals out that AoO.

Basically, the armed calibans are getting free sneak attacks when they shouldn't be.

I'll give the calibans Improved Unarmed Strike, which will solve both problems at once.  :twisted:

That's rude.  :x

I'm still experiencing the issue, however. Has it been addressed yet?

For clarification, The calibans who have weapons, usually brutes, are able to dish out a free sneak attack against the player character when the player character turns to dish out an attack of opportunity against unarmed combatants.

Giving the unarmed calibans improved unarmed would certainly fix the issue, and not getting free AoO's against the unarmed Calibans is significantly not as awful as getting boned by dual-wielding brutes and their sneak attacks.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Night of Reod on February 04, 2017, 12:36:32 PM
There's an odd getup going on with port calibans. The ones that are unarmed provoke attacks of opportunities as intended, but the armed calibans get free sneak attacks whenever a pc automatically deals out that AoO.

Basically, the armed calibans are getting free sneak attacks when they shouldn't be.

I'll give the calibans Improved Unarmed Strike, which will solve both problems at once.  :twisted:

Giving them an equipped glove/bracer item might solve the issue, if they don't have one already. Give them gloves that do +2d6 divine damage against animals for seagull pest control I say!  :P
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on February 07, 2017, 10:27:03 PM
I'll try something else for my next update.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Pav on November 11, 2017, 12:11:30 AM
Not sure if anyone made mention of this in this thread yet, but wolfweres appear to cast magic weapon on themselves and visibly having no effect. This seems like simply an extra easy round of attacks and an AoO for the person attacking them.

I would argue the same would go toward their casting of the Resistance cantrip, but that one 'works', unlike casting magic weapon on what one would assume would be creature weapons (I assume this because the 'applied' vfx of the spell doesn't pop up on them).
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Dud_Goose on November 11, 2017, 01:14:39 AM
Maybe Magic Fang instead?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Pav on November 11, 2017, 05:19:47 AM
Maybe Magic Fang instead?

They are Bards, so they can't cast that. Splicing them with Druid for it would mechanically be interesting, but ultimately not canon to what the creatures are 'usually'.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Dud_Goose on November 11, 2017, 06:24:47 AM
Maybe just have them buff with some other bard spell, then.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on November 16, 2017, 02:21:18 AM
Not sure if anyone made mention of this in this thread yet, but wolfweres appear to cast magic weapon on themselves and visibly having no effect. This seems like simply an extra easy round of attacks and an AoO for the person attacking them.

I would argue the same would go toward their casting of the Resistance cantrip, but that one 'works', unlike casting magic weapon on what one would assume would be creature weapons (I assume this because the 'applied' vfx of the spell doesn't pop up on them).
They actually have weapons equipped, they just don't show up because the creature models aren't set up to show equipped items.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Pav on November 16, 2017, 12:00:53 PM
Not sure if anyone made mention of this in this thread yet, but wolfweres appear to cast magic weapon on themselves and visibly having no effect. This seems like simply an extra easy round of attacks and an AoO for the person attacking them.

I would argue the same would go toward their casting of the Resistance cantrip, but that one 'works', unlike casting magic weapon on what one would assume would be creature weapons (I assume this because the 'applied' vfx of the spell doesn't pop up on them).
They actually have weapons equipped, they just don't show up because the creature models aren't set up to show equipped items.

Understandable, all's good then!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: derkotushka on February 22, 2018, 05:50:00 PM
Demonologists in Perfidus has few minor issues what can be fixed and make them a bit stronger.

When Demonologists casts time stop spell - first spell what they cast is improved invisibility and then haste.
Demonologists will become a little stronger if order of first few spells will be changed. Time stop -> haste -> other spells what they casts now.
Why they become stronger? Demonologists will be able cast on one more spell in time stop.
Spoiler: show
Maybe also make them able cast mass haste instead of simple one? But I do not know, maybe it will make few places too harsh.


Demonologists also casting two elemental shields spells instead of one.
First they casts acid sheath and after it fire shield. And fire shield rewrite acid one and so they waste more time on casting.
In my opinion with amount of fire-resistance items/feats it is better remove fire shield spell and just left acid one on them.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: zDark Shadowz on November 20, 2018, 08:13:20 PM
When running away from a Nightwalker while hasted (which wasn't working to escape lol) it began casting a seeing spell of some kind repeatedly when it was antagonized instead of continuing the chase.

This allowed me to escape it, thankfully, but it should only reapply whatever spell it was if it's not currently active, or simply have blind-sight and no spells oriented toward sight.

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ophie Kitty on February 06, 2019, 04:12:30 AM
Slow shadows (black ooze blob model) aren't immune to negative energy and auto-die when they spawn in a certain negative energy area.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: haifisch021 on February 06, 2019, 05:52:34 PM
Slow shadows (black ooze blob model) aren't immune to negative energy and auto-die when they spawn in a certain negative energy area.

Most shadows I've encountered are not immune to negative energy, now that you mention it. At least those in the Sullen Woods/Retezat Forest area.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: TheFury on February 06, 2019, 06:21:36 PM
Many of the "negative energy" creatures in the tergs like the Tollips aren't considered undead. Among other things, this means they're vulnerable to crits, don't heal from negative energy damage, and bless weapon has no additional effectiveness.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Silas Rotleaf on February 07, 2019, 07:17:42 PM
Why do lesser shadow wolves know dispel?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: zDark Shadowz on February 07, 2019, 08:10:03 PM
Why do lesser shadow wolves know dispel?

It doesn't make them an ineffective addition when being strength drained to zero is an auto-kill condition from the surrounding greater shadows (which are awesome XP otherwise.)

Though it should probably be invisibility they cast instead. A misclick in creation that acted well enough for balance reasons perhaps.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Silas Rotleaf on February 07, 2019, 08:34:43 PM
Yeah I mean I think they know see invisibility already just always felt like an odd mix to me to have that and dispel instead of see invis plus invis...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Crimson Shuriken on February 20, 2019, 07:17:25 PM
Slow shadows (black ooze blob model) aren't immune to negative energy and auto-die when they spawn in a certain negative energy area.

Most shadows I've encountered are not immune to negative energy, now that you mention it. At least those in the Sullen Woods/Retezat Forest area.

Many of the "negative energy" creatures in the tergs like the Tollips aren't considered undead. Among other things, this means they're vulnerable to crits, don't heal from negative energy damage, and bless weapon has no additional effectiveness.

Trillochs and slow shadows are outsiders, same type as a slaad, succubus or gelugon so they are not immune to critical hits.  They are, however, creatures of negative energy and should be completely immune to negative energy. Trillochs are not explicitly immune in 3rd edition (slow shadows are) but they are native to the negative energy plane so they simply cannot be harmed by the stuff or else they would not survive their own home.

Xeg-yi are energons, their type is elemental in 3rd edition, so again, they are not immune to critical hits. They too are native to the negative energy plane so should be immune to the stuff.

Btw, this place you are talking about is a great example of how skillfully and thoughtfully the ecology of the module truly is. By just the creatures encountered in those terg crypts, one can be given the impression a rift of some sort was opened there or that a strong influence of the negative energy plane existed. At least for lore nerds like myself. Its always been something I appreciated about PotM, the care given to match encounters with place.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: SardineTheAncestor on February 09, 2020, 09:41:57 AM
This is the report about the erroneous creature called Dusanu (https://www.mojobob.com/roleplay/monstrousmanual/d/dusanu.html) found in Har'Akir.

This source material says it inflicts a disease which shows no outward sign of infection for 1d3+1 days and then attempts to kill the target (fort vs. death) and begin hijacking its remains 1d3+1 days later.

To test the ingame effect, I waited a couple hours of real life time without curing the disease. Nothing happened. I logged out for several hours then came back, and had lost 1 CHA. Repeating the process over the course of the next day, I then lost 1 INT and then 1 STR each time I logged in after several hours, but then I recovered from the disease upon the final login. This doesn't appear consistent with the source material at all. I think the ability damage should be coming in much quicker and a fortitude save against death should be made at some point.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Hypatia on February 09, 2020, 12:40:44 PM
Also, the Dusanu are unaffected by healing, but they sure look undead to me.

Nevermind!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: MAB77 on February 09, 2020, 02:31:48 PM
It's not limited to dasanus. Poisons and diseases in general would benefit from being revised completely. It is low on our priorities though.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Hypatia on February 09, 2020, 02:49:02 PM
Oh I would love to see some really high tier diseases you can't just one-click away.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: SardineTheAncestor on February 09, 2020, 03:07:33 PM
Even if you can one-click them away, it still incurs a consumable cost (remove disease is plainly a waste of a spell slot). The diseases simply need to be rebalanced a bit. Some poisons and diseases are truly crippling and take effect near-instantaneously, while others, like this one, take forever, and aren't a big deal when they should have the capability of being fatal.

But, not to clog up the thread with theoretical game design blahblah. I can understand if it's not a priority though, just thought it was worth mentioning.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: SardineTheAncestor on March 06, 2020, 05:52:22 PM
The puny DC 14 Fear cast by Goristros is affecting the Aspect of Chernovog in Lysaga Hill.

9th circle Divine casters are typically immune to DC 14 Will saves, so something is definitely wrong here.

Its death message is also misspelled, reading "disolves" rather than "dissolves."
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on March 13, 2020, 10:45:38 PM
The puny DC 14 Fear cast by Goristros is affecting the Aspect of Chernovog in Lysaga Hill.

9th circle Divine casters are typically immune to DC 14 Will saves, so something is definitely wrong here.

Its death message is also misspelled, reading "disolves" rather than "dissolves."

I'll fix both.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on March 13, 2020, 10:46:11 PM
Slow shadows (black ooze blob model) aren't immune to negative energy and auto-die when they spawn in a certain negative energy area.

I'll fix this. This was an oversight.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: SardineTheAncestor on May 22, 2020, 06:26:36 AM
There is a creature in Perfidus, in the outdoors portion, its name started with H (edit: It's named Hamatula, courtesy of inkcorvid). After just two or three rounds of combat, it would take over the entire chatbox with its spam messages.

I like return damage as a mechanic, but this is a bit much, it's quite disruptive. Maybe its message could be moved to the combat log or something.

(https://i.imgur.com/Pk6YtnE.png)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Destinysdesire on May 22, 2020, 08:10:13 AM
I found this too with Ly'in
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on May 22, 2020, 08:21:54 PM
There is a creature in Perfidus, in the outdoors portion, its name started with H (edit: It's named Hamatula, courtesy of inkcorvid). After just two or three rounds of combat, it would take over the entire chatbox with its spam messages.

I like return damage as a mechanic, but this is a bit much, it's quite disruptive. Maybe its message could be moved to the combat log or something.

(https://i.imgur.com/Pk6YtnE.png)

I'll convert these to combat log messages.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: zDark Shadowz on May 22, 2020, 08:51:43 PM
There was a screenshot of a Greater Shadow Spider casting both Shield and Shield of Faith, if this could be switched to just Shield (if the shield of faith isn't doing +5 AC for it) it'd have an extra round to do other things (though this is extremely minor).

Noble Salamanders don't try to cast dispel magic on Darkness, preventing them from dispelling other players who hide in the darkness to fight them.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Sinful Mystic on June 05, 2020, 06:02:14 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned but I have noticed Umber Hulks confusing each other a lot lately. They should probably be immune.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on June 23, 2020, 09:57:50 PM
There was a screenshot of a Greater Shadow Spider casting both Shield and Shield of Faith, if this could be switched to just Shield (if the shield of faith isn't doing +5 AC for it) it'd have an extra round to do other things (though this is extremely minor).

Noble Salamanders don't try to cast dispel magic on Darkness, preventing them from dispelling other players who hide in the darkness to fight them.

I'll fix the former (remove Shield of Faith); can't do much about #2 as that's more of an AI issue.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I have noticed Umber Hulks confusing each other a lot lately. They should probably be immune.

That's technically not a bug since Confusion affects living creatures, regardless of hostility setting. As such a Umber Hulk could be victim to another Umber Hulk's confusion gaze. It's not necessarily ideal design though.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on July 17, 2020, 02:06:37 AM
Summoned Lantern Archon preferred attack is melee packing a whooping 1d2-1, while seldom casting any of its 20xday lightning bolts, magic missile. Moreover it casts aid only when the fight is over and doesnt try to heal itself.

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: zDark Shadowz on July 17, 2020, 04:24:07 AM
Can confirm the habits of the Lantern Archon, summoned from good alignment spell "Lesser Planar Binding".

It casts Ethereal Visage at its first engagement, and then tries to attack in melee.

Only if it's surrounded or away from the caster does it begin to cast its spells, and prefers to try conserve magic otherwise with its melee attacks.

Long distance foes it might try to cast lightning bolt but it's more likely to try melee.

If it's possible to give it a more caster-oriented AI, that would be nice, it looks like fun backup support if it was working correctly as summoned artillery.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Rainor on July 19, 2020, 08:18:49 PM
Hazlan: Krenshers.

They use a scare attack when they see an enemy, however, this attack doesn't do anything. I noticed I wasn't being forced to make a save when it hit me, and a lvl 3 player that was with me was completely unaffected by the scare.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on September 17, 2020, 03:18:29 AM
Sometimes Shadows in the Sullen forest cast Darkness before true seeing thus they remain helpless in their own dark and they make me laugh so much the silly sausages  :lol:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Thundron on September 17, 2020, 05:11:41 AM
Sometimes Shadows in the Sullen forest cast Darkness before true seeing thus they remain helpless in their own dark and they make me laugh so much the silly sausages  :lol:
Correct me if im wrong but doesnt darkness is utter useless as they have 50% concealment anyways.. and darkness does the same but those wont stack. I suppose they are stupid enough undead that they dont realize they wont need darkness.. but I think they should have ultravision (thats what you refered to right) as default.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on September 17, 2020, 05:21:26 AM
Correct me if im wrong but doesnt darkness is utter useless as they have 50% concealment anyways.. and darkness does the same but those wont stack. I suppose they are stupid enough undead that they dont realize they wont need darkness.. but I think they should have ultravision (thats what you refered to right) as default.

you are right they might be casting Ultravision or any other "I can see you you cant see me" spell, i think it's to catch you flatfooted if you dont have blind fighting -but if you have, you get/stay inside the dark and start hitting them before they can cast their Ultravision or whatever, they panic and run off their own dark aaah ill never not laugh loud at this
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: zDark Shadowz on September 17, 2020, 06:49:44 PM
No, its not useless. Casting Darkness before Ultravision is perfectly valid, it stops you from attacking them immediately while they begin their other buffs, while helping hide any other shadows nearby who often stealth when returning to attack.

The effect of darkness does two things, it blinds creatures within, and it gifts concealment (that is pierced by ultravision instead of see invisibility), so as a protective spell it works well.

While attacking a creature that is concealed (not visible by Spot/sight to the player) does offer a 50% concealment anyway, there is a mechanic for being blinded by darkness which causes an "attacker miss chance" percentile of 50% to those blinded as well.

The Blind-Fight feat, rather than offer a reroll against this additional miss chance percentile, actually eliminates it entirely in NWN, so not everyone sees that or knows about it if they've always been told to take blind-fight anyway.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Thundron on September 18, 2020, 10:51:17 AM
No, its not useless. Casting Darkness before Ultravision is perfectly valid, it stops you from attacking them immediately while they begin their other buffs, while helping hide any other shadows nearby who often stealth when returning to attack.

The effect of darkness does two things, it blinds creatures within, and it gifts concealment (that is pierced by ultravision instead of see invisibility), so as a protective spell it works well.

While attacking a creature that is concealed (not visible by Spot/sight to the player) does offer a 50% concealment anyway, there is a mechanic for being blinded by darkness which causes an "attacker miss chance" percentile of 50% to those blinded as well.

The Blind-Fight feat, rather than offer a reroll against this additional miss chance percentile, actually eliminates it entirely in NWN, so not everyone sees that or knows about it if they've always been told to take blind-fight anyway.

my point being if you are blind you still have same change to hit concealed creatures, there for darkness is actually useless since you would hit then 50% of time anyways with sufficient attack roll.. only thing is that if you are not paying attension, you have to manually select new target.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Kamfrenchie on October 04, 2020, 10:56:00 AM
The jackalwere in Har akir are way too weak, and spend their time getting curbstomped by other creatures...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: tylernwn on October 15, 2020, 10:52:24 AM
More on the erroneous creature side of things. The Nightwalker (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Nightwalker) as it appears in POTM seems to be immune to magic (I saw the "magic immunity" message in the combat log vs every spell I cast that allowed a spell resistance check [fireball/sonic-lance/greater missile storm]), and it has immunity to acid. These are not properties it has in the SRD/Monster Compendium 3.5. So it looks like it might have some erroneous properties.

As it appears now its not really a nightcrawler, but some kind of super nightcrawler lord/archmage/chosen-of-shar, next level undead. And its name should probably reflect that.

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Iridni Ren on October 15, 2020, 10:54:19 AM
More on the erroneous creature side of things. The Nightwalker (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Nightwalker) as it appears in POTM seems to be immune to magic (I saw the "magic immunity" message in the combat log vs every spell I cast that allowed a spell resistance check), and acid. These are not properties it has in the SRD/Monster Compendium 3.5. So it looks like it might have some erroneous properties.

As it appears now its not really a nightcrawler, but some kind of super nightcrawler lord/archmage/chosen-of-shar next level undead, and its name should probably reflect that.

The Ascendant Nightwalker is immune to magic. Is there a regular nightwalker...and is it also immune to magic?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: tylernwn on October 15, 2020, 11:06:50 AM
The jackalwere in Har akir are way too weak, and spend their time getting curbstomped by other creatures...

Jackalwere priests of anubis were a thing in The Touch of Death. I don't see why there couldn't still be one or two around.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: tylernwn on October 15, 2020, 11:07:53 AM
More on the erroneous creature side of things. The Nightwalker (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Nightwalker) as it appears in POTM seems to be immune to magic (I saw the "magic immunity" message in the combat log vs every spell I cast that allowed a spell resistance check), and acid. These are not properties it has in the SRD/Monster Compendium 3.5. So it looks like it might have some erroneous properties.

As it appears now its not really a nightcrawler, but some kind of super nightcrawler lord/archmage/chosen-of-shar next level undead, and its name should probably reflect that.

The Ascendant Nightwalker is immune to magic. Is there a regular nightwalker...and is it also immune to magic?

The one I saw was just named "Nightwalker". Maybe it should be renamed to Ascendant Nightwalker if that is what it is?

Spoiler: show
Nightwalker Picture (https://imgur.com/aE6fiDK)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Iridni Ren on October 15, 2020, 11:12:48 AM
No, you're probably right. I just haven't noticed the magic immunity before.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on October 15, 2020, 11:17:48 AM
First of all, Dandwiki should never be used as a source of anything, it's mostly homebrew. There are other sites that exist (such as d20srd.org, Realmshelps) that are more reliable. Nightwalkers are set up appropriately. Here's from their description (Nightwalkers are a type of Nightshade):

Spoiler: show
Quote
Nightshade Abilities: All nightshades share the following special abilities.

...

Spell Immunity (Su): Nightshades ignore the effects of spells and spell-like abilities of 6th level or lower, just as if the spellcaster had failed to overcome spell resistance.


Also, on a more general level, we will often tweak balance on monsters, especially since not all their PnP abilities can be represented on NwN (ie: Nightwalkers should be able to permanently destroy weapons).
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Disorder on October 15, 2020, 11:21:29 AM
More on the erroneous creature side of things. The Nightwalker (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Nightwalker) as it appears in POTM seems to be immune to magic (I saw the "magic immunity" message in the combat log vs every spell I cast that allowed a spell resistance check), and acid. These are not properties it has in the SRD/Monster Compendium 3.5. So it looks like it might have some erroneous properties.

As it appears now its not really a nightcrawler, but some kind of super nightcrawler lord/archmage/chosen-of-shar next level undead, and its name should probably reflect that.

The Ascendant Nightwalker is immune to magic. Is there a regular nightwalker...and is it also immune to magic?

The one I saw was just named "Nightwalker". Maybe it should be renamed to Ascendant Nightwalker if that is what it is?

Spoiler: show
Nightwalker Picture (https://imgur.com/aE6fiDK)


We do have Ascendant Nightwalker. One in fact, as a boss in a dungeon. Very strong creature. I haven't tested many spells on it, but it wasn't immune to spells like magic missiles. And I believe all the sorts of shadows on potm are immune to elemental damage, thus making half of evocation spells ineffective against them.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Iridni Ren on October 15, 2020, 11:25:08 AM
We do have Ascendant Nightwalker. One in fact, as a boss in a dungeon. Very strong creature. I haven't tested many spells on it, but it wasn't immune to spells like magic missiles.

Yes, that's the one I've encountered pretty recently. And I'm almost positive there was a reference to Magic Immunity in my log afterward. Since I tend to save only RP logs and not dungeon logs, unfortunately I can't check that.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: tylernwn on October 15, 2020, 03:24:07 PM
First of all, Dandwiki should never be used as a source of anything, it's mostly homebrew. There are other sites that exist (such as d20srd.org, Realmshelps) that are more reliable. Nightwalkers are set up appropriately. Here's from their description (Nightwalkers are a type of Nightshade):

Spoiler: show
Quote
Nightshade Abilities: All nightshades share the following special abilities.

...

Spell Immunity (Su): Nightshades ignore the effects of spells and spell-like abilities of 6th level or lower, just as if the spellcaster had failed to overcome spell resistance.


Also, on a more general level, we will often tweak balance on monsters, especially since not all their PnP abilities can be represented on NwN (ie: Nightwalkers should be able to permanently destroy weapons).

I tried to find the quoted text, and realized its from 3e. It seems like nightwalkers have changed a lot between editions, from 3e to 3.5e.
In 3.5e (Monster Compendium, and d20srd nightshades (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightshade.htm)) nightwalkers do not have these properties, but in 3e they do (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/3e_SRD:Nightshade).

Looks like its correct. Sorry for the trouble.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on October 15, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
You're looking at the 3.5 version of the Nightwalker, whereas we are using the 3E version. They replaced the Spell Immunity with SR 29 in 3.5, among other changes. They also lowered the CR from 18 to 16.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: tylernwn on October 15, 2020, 03:43:53 PM
You're looking at the 3.5 version of the Nightwalker, whereas we are using the 3E version. They replaced the Spell Immunity with SR 29 in 3.5, among other changes. They also lowered the CR from 18 to 16.

Yeah, you're right. Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on January 19, 2021, 10:05:35 AM
I find that Dire Crag Cats are a bit overboard with their
Spoiler: show
+24 +19 AB
, while a balor
Spoiler: show
has +28
. Tried to look for the cat stats in the 3E bestiary but i couldnt find it. IMO it needs looking into.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: inkcorvid on January 19, 2021, 03:47:34 PM
IIRC, canonical Dire Tigers are also terrifyingly powerful. And ordinary Crag Cats are probably worse than ordinary Tigers. I almost low-key love how unfairly monstrous Dire Crag Cats are: they look deceptively like ordinary Crag Cats, but have caused me no end of party wipes.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on January 19, 2021, 03:58:22 PM
IIRC, canonical Dire Tigers are also terrifyingly powerful. And ordinary Crag Cats are probably worse than ordinary Tigers. I almost low-key love how unfairly monstrous Dire Crag Cats are: they look deceptively like ordinary Crag Cats, but have caused me no end of party wipes.

IKR? It's just it came to me that yesterday i was happily bashing balors and the day before i ended a 1 on 1 against a dire crag cat with 20 hp left... of course since they are "just crag cats" i didnt buff, while balors being balors i went in full regalia... but yeah  :lol:
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Crimson Shuriken on January 19, 2021, 07:58:32 PM
Tried to look for the cat stats in the 3E bestiary but i couldnt find it. IMO it needs looking into.
Check out Bestiary of the Realms Vol 1. by Thomas Costa and Eric Boyd. PDF is free and legal.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on January 20, 2021, 02:48:09 AM
Thanks! Found the Crag cat, which has right 20 less AB than the dire version... cant find the dire tho, so i dont know if that AB is warranted...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EarlofEtheria on January 22, 2021, 02:02:48 AM
Greater Wolfweres along Lake Zarovich cast both Daze and Charm Person. If the idea was to catch low level players trying to run by, they already have Charm Person for this while Daze makes a mockery of their stature. Though I would argue Charm Person should be something more terrifying overall. They have decent attacks, but they are far too often casting Daze on targets completely immune to it.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: SardineTheAncestor on January 22, 2021, 09:24:26 AM
I'm curious if Charm Person actually does anything. It's really not a combat spell in the first place and if you hit players with it, it doesn't make them do your bidding.

It's possible some spells like these were intended as "empty casts" or immunity checks, not meant to be effective in any way, as seen in several casters around the module.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on January 23, 2021, 12:24:31 PM
Greater Wolfweres along Lake Zarovich cast both Daze and Charm Person. If the idea was to catch low level players trying to run by, they already have Charm Person for this while Daze makes a mockery of their stature. Though I would argue Charm Person should be something more terrifying overall. They have decent attacks, but they are far too often casting Daze on targets completely immune to it.

Thanks, I'll remove those two spells from their spell list.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Dardonas on January 23, 2021, 12:35:03 PM

Thanks, I'll remove those two spells from their spell list.

If I'm not mistaken, the Ogre Mages and Ogre High Mages will also cast charm person.  It didn't have any effect in practice, though my barbarian at the time had a little crush on an ogre ICly.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: tylernwn on February 27, 2021, 10:40:22 AM
Re: The Max Scorpion Spawn in the Temple of Harvest, Har Akir.
The Temple of Harvest Huge Scorpion Spawn, at max spawn should always contain at least 1-2 Large Fiendish Scorpions. If not it is possible to do this:

Spoiler: show

(https://i.imgur.com/I4RtRxq.jpg)

Large Fiendish Scorpions do fit through the doorway, so if they are present you will at least have to fight those off first.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Coronenko on March 29, 2021, 05:00:14 PM
Rotting Boars under the orphanage are the only mobs in that dungeon that aren't evil, could it have been an oversight?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on March 30, 2021, 07:42:23 PM
Rotting Boars under the orphanage are the only mobs in that dungeon that aren't evil, could it have been an oversight?

Looks like an oversight; I'll fix this.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: SardineTheAncestor on March 31, 2021, 01:44:09 AM
In Ghastria - Tunnels, the Small Grave Ooze is so small in fact that you can't really click it. I see the mouse icon turn into a sword only during certain points of its animation, for like a split second.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: zDark Shadowz on March 31, 2021, 04:46:28 AM
In Ghastria - Tunnels, the Small Grave Ooze is so small in fact that you can't really click it. I see the mouse icon turn into a sword only during certain points of its animation, for like a split second.
It really is unnecessarily difficult, it'd be easier to click a forest gnome monk.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on April 10, 2021, 04:35:18 PM
In Ghastria - Tunnels, the Small Grave Ooze is so small in fact that you can't really click it. I see the mouse icon turn into a sword only during certain points of its animation, for like a split second.

I've tried to resize them a little bit. Let me know if it helps.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: diestormlie on April 14, 2021, 08:09:12 AM
A portion of the Skeleton Lords in the Eastern Barovian Catacombs weren't using/Equipping their weapons; they were just punching away.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: inkcorvid on May 16, 2021, 07:38:59 PM
Giant slugs seemingly cannot move, at least where they're found in Dementlieu in the Eastern sewers. Is this intentional?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: herkles on May 16, 2021, 07:41:28 PM
Giant slugs seemingly cannot move, at least where they're found in Dementlieu in the Eastern sewers. Is this intentional?
I thought that they just move super slowly?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: SardineTheAncestor on May 16, 2021, 09:56:13 PM
They are not so slow as to be completely stationary. There are a few places they just get caught and can't move at all because they're too big.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: inkcorvid on May 17, 2021, 02:15:51 PM
Can confirm that they're (or these two at least) entirely jammed in place. They occasionally try to inch forward, but they're rubberbanded back because they're hitting geometry. Presumably their hitboxes are enormous.

(https://i.imgur.com/KU5HX9A.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/hpi90Re.png)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Grunt on July 18, 2021, 03:13:33 AM
In Ghastria - Tunnels, the Small Grave Ooze is so small in fact that you can't really click it. I see the mouse icon turn into a sword only during certain points of its animation, for like a split second.

I've tried to resize them a little bit. Let me know if it helps.

It has not helped.

Went through the ghastria tunnel, all of the "small grave ooze" were beneath the ground floor unable to be clicked, unable to be looted.

Could use a change.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: tylernwn on July 25, 2021, 08:01:30 PM
Prisoner Slayer needs more fireballs, and or ranged attacks to be able to throw at players. It is currently possible to kill him with ranged attacks from the walkway leading up to him.

Spoiler: show

(https://i.imgur.com/uxzeM7j.jpg)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Evendur on August 21, 2021, 03:55:08 PM
Desert Troll Fleshshaper seem to cast "Control Undead" on living enemies (no undead were around at all)

Id suggest to change that to something effective against the usual adventurer.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures. - The Blaustein Shipwreck Tentacles
Post by: Ashgan on August 29, 2021, 09:16:06 AM
Hi everyone, when I was clearing the shipwreck yesterday, I was paralyzed by one of the tentacles. Other attacks of the same type of tentacle prompted the "Character Name: Immune to Poison" text, which made me assume it was a poison, to which my character, being a druid, should be, and later was, immune. I had a Greater Stoneskin spell cast, so I'm thinking that may have done something towards this end. There was also a will save prompted, though I succeeded on it. Sadly, I have no screenshot of the "Immune to poison" messages, but here's a screenshot of when the paralyze must've hit (I did not attack anymore after the Bolt attack of the Monstrous Fanged Tentacle). https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2588229691
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: tylernwn on September 18, 2021, 10:41:11 AM
Lately Ogre High Mages don't seem to use their spells properly. They just cast invisibility and ghostly visage, then start attacking in melee.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EarlofEtheria on September 18, 2021, 06:53:59 PM
Vampire Matriarch's were casting Ray of Frost and Daze once their spell count started to deplete to empty.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: mappinger on September 28, 2021, 11:20:07 AM
This isn't a technical error or bug exactly, but as a character who is tied thematically to werewolves I have noticed that the placement of the one type of classic gothic horror lycanthrope that is legitimately a threat to characters in the middle levels is not present where it would provide some use.

Would it not make sense for Alpha Werewolves to not be exclusively tucked away in a far off place that no one has incentive to travel to (beyond delivering supplies) and also spawned sporadically where level 10+ adventurers passed through? Sporadically...because the maybe/maybe not of an event adds more tension than it being expected.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: RedMoney on January 04, 2022, 07:39:44 PM
The summon monster V giant turtle is super useless! It does nothing!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on January 10, 2022, 02:52:14 AM
ghostly servants in raduta keep cannot be hit with a Bar Ethel (+4 undead), it returns ineffective weapon.

same goes for shadow demons same location, but i dont know how they classify (greater shadows are fine).
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: DaloLorn on January 10, 2022, 03:20:11 AM
ghostly servants in raduta keep cannot be hit with a Bar Ethel (+4 undead), it returns ineffective weapon.

same goes for shadow demons same location, but i dont know how they classify (greater shadows are fine).

Shadow demons are... well, demons. They're not undead.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on January 10, 2022, 03:33:25 AM
ghostly servants in raduta keep cannot be hit with a Bar Ethel (+4 undead), it returns ineffective weapon.

same goes for shadow demons same location, but i dont know how they classify (greater shadows are fine).

Shadow demons are... well, demons. They're not undead.

eeeeh... not sure about that. the description says they are demons trapped as shadows, and do drop shadow essences so could be both, could be either...
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: DaloLorn on January 10, 2022, 03:51:58 AM
ghostly servants in raduta keep cannot be hit with a Bar Ethel (+4 undead), it returns ineffective weapon.

same goes for shadow demons same location, but i dont know how they classify (greater shadows are fine).

Shadow demons are... well, demons. They're not undead.

eeeeh... not sure about that. the description says they are demons trapped as shadows, and do drop shadow essences so could be both, could be either...

A quick Google search throws up links describing them as being of the Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil, Tanar'ri, Incorporeal) type. At no point does any of that make them undead.

Mind you, I can't find a single 3e source on the matter, but 3.5e should be close enough here.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Forte on January 10, 2022, 04:05:16 AM
They are still undead.

Bless Weapon functions completely fine against Shadows, and Bless Weapon is distinctly against the Undead type of enemy.

Quote
Bless Weapon
Spell Level: Paladin 1
Innate Level: 1
School: Transmutation
Component: Verbal, Somatic
Range: Touch
Area of Effect / Target: Creature or Weapon
Duration: 1 Hour + 2 Turns / Level
You empower the touched weapon with a 2d6 divine damage bonus versus undead and a +1 enhancement bonus.

Not only that, but the vanilla game also registers shadows as undead on the  official wiki (https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow), and summonable Shadow through Shadowdancer. (https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Summon_shadow)

While official PnP material may differ, they are most def undead ingame!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: DaloLorn on January 10, 2022, 04:38:09 AM
They are still undead.

Bless Weapon functions completely fine against Shadows, and Bless Weapon is distinctly against the Undead type of enemy.

Quote from: Bless Weapon description
You empower the touched weapon with a 2d6 divine damage bonus versus undead and a +1 enhancement bonus.

Not only that, but the vanilla game also registers shadows as undead on the  official wiki (https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow), and summonable Shadow through Shadowdancer. (https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Summon_shadow)

While official PnP material may differ, they are most def undead ingame!

... Those are shadows, and they're undead in PnP too. Maffa and I are debating whether shadow demons are also undead. PnP (and common sense, IMO, considering their name specifically calls them out as demons) says they're not.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: inkcorvid on January 10, 2022, 05:23:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uHIlDVp.png)

The latter is indeed a kind of demon (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow_demon), at least in tabletop. Confusingly, they are also sometimes called shadow fiends, but the former creatures are indeed a variety of shadow (https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow), which is an undead creature, but they (Shadow Fiends and Greater Shadow Fiends) are a distinct subclass with different abilities and attack patterns. If it walks like a humanoid, it's undead: a "Greater Shadow" is also a thing, and they're also undead. Base NWN has "Shadow", "Shadow Fiend" and "Shadow Lord", but PotM has removed the latter and added some more variety.

Quote from: Forgotten Realms Wiki
Shadow demons, also called shadow fiends, were the product of a demon whose essence could not properly reform in the Abyss. Trapped within the form of a living silhouette, these demons were merely shadows of their former selves.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on January 10, 2022, 06:10:04 AM
This said, I know there are some creatures that even if theyhave the moniker "shadow" they are not treatedas such, like the lesser wolves in the sullen woods. So this is why Iam uncertain about the shadow demons. the description of the creature would make one believe they are indeed shadows but i will refer that to Those That Know.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: zDark Shadowz on January 10, 2022, 06:25:05 AM
Mm, shadow wolves are fey, shadow demons are outsiders, shadows and shadow fiends are undead.

There is confusion with fiend and demon being used interchangeably at times, but blame the authors. Shadow <> undead, except for the "shadow" creature, which is.

Lots of fun.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on January 10, 2022, 06:37:24 AM
but if the yare outsiders why they drop black shadow essence?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Kaninchen on January 10, 2022, 08:11:13 AM
I go with "because they are fueled by negative energy while in this plane" as an explanation to people IC. So after dying, seems they would drop something to that refines into negative energy.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Lexica on January 20, 2022, 09:18:59 PM
The Sleeping King's destruction spells and bolt attacks are significantly less dangerous than his melee attacks, and take up an entire round of his actions. Given that the Sleeping King is essentially always fought as a solo encounter, him wasting rounds on such ineffective abilities really reduces his threat level.

I think that either these abilities should be removed entirely, to make him more dangerous, or else replaced with something more effective, like greater ruin.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: tylernwn on January 20, 2022, 09:42:12 PM
Some Shadowfiends in the Sullen Woods cast darkness too many times. If you can't see through the darkness it is annoying, but if you have ultravision you get to enjoy 5-7 rounds of free hits before the monsters start attacking you back.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on January 21, 2022, 05:00:15 AM
Some Shadowfiends in the Sullen Woods cast darkness too many times. If you can't see through the darkness it is annoying, but if you have ultravision you get to enjoy 5-7 rounds of free hits before the monsters start attacking you back.

Leave my dorky fiends alone! if you get them with blind fighting inside their own darkness, they get lost inside and start running around aaaaah ahaha ill never not laugh at them, they're the best!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Day Old Bread on January 27, 2022, 06:23:56 PM
Werebats in western Barovia have a tendency to fly up into the air once you approach. Thematically, this is pretty cool, but the problem is that they tend to land where you were, not where you are. So they basically becoming non threatening if you simply keep running.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: DM Erebus on January 28, 2022, 05:34:49 AM
Werebats in western Barovia have a tendency to fly up into the air once you approach. Thematically, this is pretty cool, but the problem is that they tend to land where you were, not where you are. So they basically becoming non threatening if you simply keep running.

I might just remove the flight behaviour from them, I think it’s more hassle than it’s worth.

Edit Actually what I’ll try first is putting in a minimum distance for flight, and see at what point in the routine the landing point is determined. If neither of those are any ore satisfactory, I’ll pull it.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on January 28, 2022, 05:40:57 AM
dont take it away from all werebats tho. Those in their cave work just fine IMO
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Vissy on January 28, 2022, 06:06:59 AM
It actually allows them to target flat-footed AC for their first flurry after descending, kind of like a pseudo-HIPS ability. Giving some of the werebats sneak attack die might be one way to make them tougher, in compensation of removing the flight behaviour from others.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maragrouf on January 30, 2022, 06:50:13 PM
The problem is that their flight also allows for Sneaky types (Rogues, especially) to go back into Stealth and wreck their face once they come back down.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: SardineTheAncestor on February 01, 2022, 06:23:47 PM
Anyone can gain that benefit if they are fast enough with a knockdown, no stealth is really needed.

The flight ability has its pros and cons but personally I think hide in plain sight and a movement speed bonus would suit them better.

I imagine a werebat constantly flying around you and harrying you as you try to flee. The flight ability having no minimum distance works to this end, it makes them confusing to fight and it gives them time to regenerate too. The only problem is how vulnerable they are when landing, and what ZSRunner said about their positioning.

They are still really hard hitting enemies and if the ability does one thing right, it leads to unexpected attacks where one or two fall behind and attack you later, sometimes while you are occupied with other enemies or not paying attention. HiPS might just make them more predictable.

I personally feel the awkwardness of their mechanics gives them charm. Perhaps werebats need to be able to hit you with called shot, like some of the permahasted werewolves that they replaced.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Day Old Bread on February 01, 2022, 06:48:41 PM
Anyone can gain that benefit if they are fast enough with a knockdown, no stealth is really needed.

The flight ability has its pros and cons but personally I think hide in plain sight and a movement speed bonus would suit them better.

I imagine a werebat constantly flying around you and harrying you as you try to flee. The flight ability having no minimum distance works to this end, it makes them confusing to fight and it gives them time to regenerate too. The only problem is how vulnerable they are when landing, and what ZSRunner said about their positioning.

They are still really hard hitting enemies and if the ability does one thing right, it leads to unexpected attacks where one or two fall behind and attack you later, sometimes while you are occupied with other enemies or not paying attention. HiPS might just make them more predictable.

I personally feel the awkwardness of their mechanics gives them charm. Perhaps werebats need to be able to hit you with called shot, like some of the permahasted werewolves that they replaced.

After finding the werebat "dungeon" I'm actually finding their flight mechanic to be more valuable.  I think maybe if it could be kept on the werebat lords and greater werebats, and removed from the lesser ones that wander the open areas along the roads, they might feel more threatening without completely removing an arguably cool ability.

Just to clarify, at the time I had originally posted that, I wasn't aware that there was an entire dungeon centered around them. Removing their flight would make the dungeon far less interesting and fun, IMO. Which again is why I suggest maybe removing it from the more simple wandering werebats and keeping it on the greaters and lords and pitch-blacks
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: SardineTheAncestor on February 01, 2022, 06:51:13 PM
Yeah, that would help. In the dungeon it provides a unique challenge which is sometimes their best chance at totally surrounding or ambushing you, but it is also a weakness. It's a gameplay mechanic which can be played around. But on the road, like you said, it just makes them easier to outrun. Introducing some variety in their abilities based on ranking might just be the thing.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Kaninchen on March 03, 2022, 07:46:19 PM
In the swamps of Barovia, the Moor-Man Witchers have a tendency to murder all of their friends with insects. Not sure if it's easier to tweak the AI to not stand in friendly AoE effects, or to turn off Creeping Doom from their spell book, and give them an alternative thing to cast.

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Thundron on March 11, 2022, 05:06:42 AM
In the swamps of Barovia, the Moor-Man Witchers have a tendency to murder all of their friends with insects. Not sure if it's easier to tweak the AI to not stand in friendly AoE effects, or to turn off Creeping Doom from their spell book, and give them an alternative thing to cast.

Could spell be altered  to have no friendly fire? It would make much more sense that insects you command wont eat friends than some firestorm wont hit everything in area.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Kaninchen on March 11, 2022, 08:15:16 AM
I'm not a dev, so I can't say what is, and, isn't possible. I'm inclined to say the spell would not be changed like that, because then it will effect PC druids as well, and if you're party members no longer have to worry about standing in the creeping doom, then it trivializes a lot of dungeon content.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: BlankStare on March 12, 2022, 06:20:36 PM
Nightwalkers encountered in the Mists will spend the first 5-6 rounds of combat spamming invisibility on themselves while already invisible, making it rather easy to beat up on them before they get the idea in their heads to do anything else.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Edward on March 24, 2022, 01:17:38 PM
Nightwalkers encountered in the Mists will spend the first 5-6 rounds of combat spamming invisibility on themselves while already invisible, making it rather easy to beat up on them before they get the idea in their heads to do anything else.

I've noticed Malthor in Perfidus will do the same thing but with spells like Weird, where he'll spam them despite the opponent being immune, etc.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Dardonas on March 27, 2022, 04:49:34 AM
Hivemother Beetles do too much damage in comparison to the scaling of the rest of the beetle cave.  3-4 instances of recieving 12-20 damage on a ranged touch attack will one shot most PCs at appropriate levels for the dungeon.  A crit is instant death.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on March 27, 2022, 03:12:21 PM
ghostly servants in raduta keep cannot be hit with a Bar Ethel (+4 undead), it returns ineffective weapon.

same goes for shadow demons same location, but i dont know how they classify (greater shadows are fine).

I'll fix the Ghostly Servant; the Shadow Demon works fine since it's... a demon, not an undead.

Vampire Matriarch's were casting Ray of Frost and Daze once their spell count started to deplete to empty.

Thanks, I'll remove the low level spells.

Desert Troll Fleshshaper seem to cast "Control Undead" on living enemies (no undead were around at all)

Id suggest to change that to something effective against the usual adventurer.

This has been fixed.

Some Shadowfiends in the Sullen Woods cast darkness too many times. If you can't see through the darkness it is annoying, but if you have ultravision you get to enjoy 5-7 rounds of free hits before the monsters start attacking you back.

I'll lower the # of uses of Darkness/Ultravision.

Nightwalkers encountered in the Mists will spend the first 5-6 rounds of combat spamming invisibility on themselves while already invisible, making it rather easy to beat up on them before they get the idea in their heads to do anything else.

I'll fix this.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Calad on April 03, 2022, 07:54:30 PM
Unsure if this is the right thread for it, but noticed in Hazlan the Rashemi rebels attack and kill Wooly Goats.

It might've been a one time spawn, but if not, making the goats faction friendly to the rebels would be nice. Especially if they are constantly spawning within each other's vicinity. I am unsure on how long the corpses stay on the ground or when they respawn again. Could result in the goats being basically moot spawns if they constantly get killed and disappear.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: MAB77 on April 03, 2022, 08:00:24 PM
Can you get me a screenshot of the area, marking down the problematic location? I'll try to have them further apart to the rebels.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Calad on April 04, 2022, 01:48:35 PM
Can you get me a screenshot of the area, marking down the problematic location? I'll try to have them further apart to the rebels.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/579382722615574534/960595817209675826/Screen_Shot_2022-04-04_at_19.43.22.jpg?width=934&height=463)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/579382722615574534/960595817687810078/Screen_Shot_2022-04-04_at_19.43.56.jpg)

The general area is where my character is standing on the map, south-western Rashemi rebels in Tusmørke Skoven map. I couldn't find wooly goats anywhere when I went to take screenshots though. Maybe already slaughtered.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: MAB77 on April 04, 2022, 02:13:27 PM
Gotcha I'll try to move them away.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Evendur on May 12, 2022, 03:36:35 PM
The assassins in curst cave cast "True Strike" but then continue to cast additional spells, attacking only once the effect has faded.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: bloodless on May 17, 2022, 04:11:23 PM
Barovia - Lake Zarovich - Northern Shore - Flooded Cave

All the scrags here do... This. Gif included.
https://gyazo.com/53e5aec6d501eb5bcae4fa38db11e103
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on May 18, 2022, 02:18:04 AM
they are an highly intelligent race. they just learned how to ferment woundwart. that stuff hits hard.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: bloodless on May 19, 2022, 07:33:57 PM
Something very strange is going on in the Aboleth dungeon, specifically with the Aberrant Gendarme Thralls.

As best as I can tell they attack with their fists, which should be blugeoning damage. Yet, as you can see, it doesn't respect my Juggernaut's Crown bludgeon dr. Stranger still, it doesn't respect my barbarian dr either (4/- at level 16). Exhibit A:

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/798665194028269618/976990199873691668/1.PNG)

Later, another one did respect the barb dr, but not the crown. I tried a brawler's belt, and noticed no improvement. Exhibit B:

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/798665194028269618/976990224699777024/3.PNG)

Meanwhile here's the Shaboath playing nice and fair (though that may be my swordsman's belt there, I'm not 100% sure about its damage type. Either way...) Exhibit C:

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/798665194028269618/976990211898761256/2.PNG)
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on May 19, 2022, 09:24:03 PM
Something very strange is going on in the Aboleth dungeon, specifically with the Aberrant Gendarme Thralls.

...

That's because they don't do bludgeoning damage; it's likely slashing (claws).
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: bloodless on May 20, 2022, 02:08:40 AM
Even then, I had a slashing resistance belt on for the first half of it before I started swapping them around to find one that works, and couldn't.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Maffa on May 20, 2022, 02:45:41 AM
maybe their weapons count as magical so they go beyond the x/ ?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Disorder on May 20, 2022, 02:58:14 AM
Answer is simple: great many creatures do combination of slashing and piercing damage with the most effective being dealt as a result. Take on swordsman belt + nobility helmet. The result is going to be 5 damage being absorbed. Take on treant shirt + archers belt and the result is going to be 3 damage being absorbed, all because of the shirt being -/3 slashing
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: zDark Shadowz on May 20, 2022, 06:43:40 AM
Looks fine to me. Some creatures have multiple creature weapons, some creatures have some that do dual types, and I suspect your "damage reduction wasnt respected" because at the time you had a greater damage reduction already from greater stoneskin (you absorbed 20 points), damage reduction doesn't stack with damage reduction, it just takes the highest that works for the situation.

Which is why Huge Shabaoth was "playing fair", because it can hit past your greater stoneskin (because it doesn't play fair, lol) so your barbarian damage reduction has the priority.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: bloodless on May 20, 2022, 08:08:22 AM
Fair enough, I didn't consider that they could have dual damage types.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Tabula Rasa on May 20, 2022, 08:13:33 AM
DM confirmed that Gudkaede Archers of Hazlan are armed with elven shortbows they cannot equip. I am unsure if the weapons the Gudkaedes have match the feats they have in general.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on May 26, 2022, 12:36:38 PM
DM confirmed that Gudkaede Archers of Hazlan are armed with elven shortbows they cannot equip. I am unsure if the weapons the Gudkaedes have match the feats they have in general.

This is now fixed, thanks for reporting it.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EarlofEtheria on June 24, 2022, 09:23:09 AM
Huecuva High Priest's cast Inflict Minor Wounds, which diminishes their stature as they will prefer to do this over attacking. This should probably be removed from their spell pool, perhaps along with Inflict Light Wounds.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Tabula Rasa on August 08, 2022, 12:45:08 AM
Nordenvall Fane Reliquary Gudkaede Guard regularly spawns as an otter or whatever that is.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/977544979733946378/1006057762813382656/unknown.png)

Sometimes that room has six gudkaedes but 50% of the time there is a single otter.

In addition, gudkaede guards have feats for long and short sword, but not for their actual weapon.


Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Dardonas on August 08, 2022, 12:47:27 AM
Nordenvall Fane Reliquary Gudkaede Guard regularly spawns as an otter or whatever that is.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/977544979733946378/1006057762813382656/unknown.png)

Sometimes that room has six gudkaedes but 50% of the time there is a single otter.

In addition, gudkaede guards have feats for long and short sword, but not for their actual weapon.

I think the Dev's have a whole lot of otter problems to worry about besides this.

(This is hilarious)

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Madame Trousers Son on August 08, 2022, 02:57:59 AM
Clearly that Guard offended a Red Wizard with Baleful Polymorph. But that's no excuse to shirk his duty.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on August 08, 2022, 08:33:10 PM
Nordenvall Fane Reliquary Gudkaede Guard regularly spawns as an otter or whatever that is.

Spoiler: show
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/977544979733946378/1006057762813382656/unknown.png)

Sometimes that room has six gudkaedes but 50% of the time there is a single otter.

In addition, gudkaede guards have feats for long and short sword, but not for their actual weapon.

I'll fix this.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Lexica on August 29, 2022, 03:53:36 PM
This is me once again drawing attention to the Sleeping King's castings of Destruction. Against any group capable of making it to him, they're entirely useless, as you have to pass through a gauntlet of mobs spamming a higher level death spell at you the whole way. It's just a waste of his limited presence that lets groups beat him up for free without having to worry about his much more dangerous attacks with his sword.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Kamfrenchie on October 02, 2022, 11:45:56 AM
The molds that can be found the mushroom filled room of the cave connecting dvergeheim to the southern forest have several problems.

First off, once they've attacked you once, it seems that after a while they manage to move and chase you.
Second, their resistances are very wieird. They have high immunity to cutting, positive energy, electricity even fire.

Plus they corrode weapons on a fairly high DC.

I dont think they add much of anything to the dungeon anyways
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: stefan pall on October 25, 2022, 04:03:55 AM
Huecuvas in the Village cast turn undead that makes the ghouls around them run away in fear.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on October 27, 2022, 08:58:02 PM
Huecuvas in the Village cast turn undead that makes the ghouls around them run away in fear.

I'll remove Turn Undead from the huecuvas.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Legebrin on February 10, 2023, 10:36:41 PM
Hazlan krenshars special ability never works, no dc, no effect, just animation :(
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: EO on February 18, 2023, 02:35:33 PM
Hazlan krenshars special ability never works, no dc, no effect, just animation :(

I've tried to fix this. Is this still an issue ?
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Legebrin on February 19, 2023, 11:16:29 PM
Hazlan krenshars special ability never works, no dc, no effect, just animation :(

Works fine now it seems, also is it possible to make demonologists in Perfidus temple to cast "haste" after the time-stop and then everything else? Because they cast time-stop and then try to ward themselves sloooowly with no haste, such algorythm seems to be absolutely wrong, unhuman and ineffective.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Krosenq on February 27, 2023, 05:13:51 AM
The regular "shadows" in the Sullen woods constantly provoke attacks of opportunity whenever they attack. I don't know if it's because they lack a creature weapon, or because their touch attacks are implemented this way. Either way, it's a bit strange, and makes them very easy to deal with.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Ryujin on February 27, 2023, 05:17:26 AM
The regular "shadows" in the Sullen woods constantly provoke attacks of opportunity whenever they attack. I don't know if it's because they lack a creature weapon, or because their touch attacks are implemented this way. Either way, it's a bit strange, and makes them very easy to deal with.
Touch attacks always proc an AOO. The shadows suffer from constantly spamming their draining touch attack, thus provoking a ton of AOO's. If it could be changed so that they are less prone to spamming this attack that would go a long way to fixing it.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Nularia on March 14, 2023, 03:21:11 AM
Hi there! While traveling into the caves on the realm I ran into a mob called a:

Choking Cinder Fungus.

The Description of this fungus states its "HIGHLY FLAMMABLE"

However it seems to actually have a fair amount of Fire immunity, completely ignoring the effects of Darkfire added to a weapon.

I kinda feel like this is fairly misleading, or something overlooked?

Was directed to bring it up here!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: noah25 on May 10, 2023, 11:50:07 PM
The molds that can be found the mushroom filled room of the cave connecting dvergeheim to the southern forest have several problems.

First off, once they've attacked you once, it seems that after a while they manage to move and chase you.
Second, their resistances are very wieird. They have high immunity to cutting, positive energy, electricity even fire.

Plus they corrode weapons on a fairly high DC.

I dont think they add much of anything to the dungeon anyways

I love these I think they are great. Make me think twice about my herb picking!
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: LegoRobot on July 13, 2023, 01:38:14 AM
The little baby spiders from the Port brothel are able to open doors.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Day Old Bread on March 04, 2024, 07:03:31 PM
Tuskmore Skoven - South
Manticores spawn very near the transition that leads toward/away from Ramulai (depending on which direction you're going). Their quill attack easily corpses you if you're at low health and they also continue to use the attack after you've been downed meaning there's no chance to recover from bleeding.

These mobs should be moved a sufficient distance away from the transition so that RA players can travel with some moderate safety. If they were pushed off to the side a bit more it would be ideal.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1176893068490850355/1214361980173951046/image.png?ex=65f8d5b9&is=65e660b9&hm=ce3443a9028578fad57f35114649c0a1e42a83973e991a56dd97ea09e6870325&)

I'm also sitting here with 19 AC so I'm unsure as to why I got hit as often as I did. Maybe I don't understand ranged touch attacks?

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1176893068490850355/1214362546161844274/image.png?ex=65f8d640&is=65e66140&hm=898dd67243d1ef1eee8dcd9ac32fa7f4a8e442e4814f5938a7946f3c9c2be2fe&)

Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: bloodless on March 04, 2024, 07:22:05 PM
I'm also sitting here with 19 AC so I'm unsure as to why I got hit as often as I did. Maybe I don't understand ranged touch attacks?

A touch attack denies the defender their armor and shield AC (base and bonus), as well as their natural armor bonus to AC. All other armor class modifiers, such as the size modifier, dexterity modifier, and deflection/dodge bonus apply (or don't apply, e.g. if flat-footed) normally. Consequentially, touch attacks sometimes have a significantly better chance of hitting than regular attacks.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: zDark Shadowz on March 04, 2024, 07:58:57 PM
With manticores, gorgons and ankhegs it's pretty clear the RA are, or were, experimenting with chimera variations, getting clapped by one of your escaped experiments is pretty thematic.

RA members would be expected to use invisibility when travelling (cast or brewed in the case of warmages / illusion restrictions), but aside from that, the manticores already spawn away from the transition. If you found them impassable without being spiked, they either wandered from the area being loaded for too long, or someone lured them, moving them slightly more would be redundant in the latter case. The domain isn't meant to be safe, anyway.

It's the Forbidden Forest to your Hogwarts.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Wilkins1952 on March 04, 2024, 08:09:30 PM
With manticores, gorgons and ankhegs it's pretty clear the RA are, or were, experimenting with chimera variations, getting clapped by one of your escaped experiments is pretty thematic.

RA members would be expected to use invisibility when travelling (cast or brewed in the case of warmages / illusion restrictions), but aside from that, the manticores already spawn away from the transition. If you found them impassable without being spiked, they either wandered from the area being loaded for too long, or someone lured them, moving them slightly more would be redundant in the latter case. The domain isn't meant to be safe, anyway.

It's the Forbidden Forest to your Hogwarts.

Since the rework there is zero way to pass without aggroing them (Even in Invis.) and if you transition sometimes you can find yourself dead before you load in when the server is chugging a bit.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: zDark Shadowz on March 04, 2024, 08:19:19 PM
With a fighter and a warmage, I ran past a lot after the rework, and had zero issues with the manticore location.

Must've been lured.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: Day Old Bread on March 04, 2024, 09:25:16 PM
With a fighter and a warmage, I ran past a lot after the rework, and had zero issues with the manticore location.

Must've been lured.

They spawn right next to the crossing there. Yes you can get by while invis, but they don't need to be blocking that pathway and, since moving, my new ISP has a lot more latency issues than the past two years so I've found I often don't know I've run into something until it's on top of me. The Manticores make it nearly impossible to survive. Regardless, they can be shifted further away from the transition to represent that it is still dangerous, yet passable. One should not wander from the path, or something like that.
Title: Re: Erroneous and ineffective creatures.
Post by: MAB77 on March 04, 2024, 11:29:31 PM
This thread grew too large. Discussion continues at https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=70938.msg814574#msg814574