Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist
Public (OOC) => Setting and Lore Discussion => Topic started by: Dread on February 21, 2013, 11:43:23 PM
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I stumbled upon some pretty neat flags, on SA's art thread. Clearly, these are not my creations, but I think a lot of them are pretty sweet representations of different countries in the Core.
BAROVIA
(http://i.imgur.com/kXcPrC7.jpg)
BLAUSTEIN
(http://i.imgur.com/dmY78W8.jpg)
DEMENTLIEU
(http://i.imgur.com/EvdX2TB.jpg)
DVERGEHEIM
(http://i.imgur.com/xW4xGRx.jpg)
FALKOVNIA
(http://i.imgur.com/PgbPwYr.jpg)
MORDENT
(http://i.imgur.com/m363qje.jpg)
PARIDON
(http://i.imgur.com/zUB31jb.jpg)
RICHEMULOT
(http://i.imgur.com/Bt1zT0Y.jpg)
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Nice!
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Representations, so they're not canon? Are there canon flags?
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Representations, so they're not canon? Are there canon flags?
I think the coat-of-arms of Von Zarovich is canon, but I can't find it anywhere, unfortunately.
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They're awesome regardless... could try to mod some shields or other equipment with those banners...
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i want a barovia shield.
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Representations, so they're not canon? Are there canon flags?
I don't believe there are any canon flags for the domains, as historically speaking the practice of flying a flag to indicate a country of origin didn't happen in the real world until the 17th century with maritime flags on sailing ships, and didn't become common for civilian use "on land" until the 18th century.
Prior to that, flags were usually limited to a particular family or ruler.
There are, however, canon flags of coats of arms for various families, such as the noble families of Mordent.
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Ah, yeah there are the coat-of-arms for all the various families of Mordent, most of which have died out. They're all in Gazetteer I, if memory serves.
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Ah, yeah there are the coat-of-arms for all the various families of Mordent, most of which have died out. They're all in Gazetteer I, if memory serves.
Gazeteer III :P
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Ah, yeah there are the coat-of-arms for all the various families of Mordent, most of which have died out. They're all in Gazetteer I, if memory serves.
Gazeteer III :P
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39066000/jpg/_39066919_dick_270.jpg)
DRAT!
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I have to say the Barovian flag is the only one that disappoints, I expected a raven & crown or something.
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http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleum/Heraldry_MikesAdamis.html
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleum/Flags_Malkens.html
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleum/Heraldry_of_the_Core.html
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http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleum/Heraldry_MikesAdamis.html
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleum/Heraldry_of_the_Core.html
These two links have canonical heraldry/flags
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I do wish we could have flags. Then again we do we have the raven the falcon etc
Also blue his first post in this topic made me want post a sheldon vid of fun with flags but I won't
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Well, Banners have been used since the middle ages to determine loyalty and house representation. Flags to me aren't too far off from banners and it might be different and cool to have a few standards lying about. I would love for them to be used in DM events such as the war between Falkovnia and Dementeliu, it would offer alot of flavor and generally because I enjoy the practice of Heraldry and Bannersmen.
Well done with these flags, they look excellent.
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I think the flags in the original post have a bit too much of a modern and stylised feel, just my opinion though.
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Well, they're not originally mine; they were intended to be used with a Shadowrun campaign and I thought them appropriate. Besides, though I realize they're somewhat anachronistic, I think it's good to have a symbol by which one can identify a given country with, be it with a coat of arms or a flag or a banner.
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Perhaps, but many of those symbols are odd and don't really fit (Barovia in particular). Although I'm not normally a stickler for historical accuracy, in this case I think I would prefer medieval family banners over national flags.
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DEMENTLIEU
(http://i.imgur.com/EvdX2TB.jpg)
This is a Cannon flag.. ^-^
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Lamordia's flag, using the Von Aubrecker's coat of arms.
(http://oi41.tinypic.com/4q32g9.jpg)
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the next time we do a content hak update i hope we add flags, shields, cloaks and surcoats that are relevant to the setting.
Ezra, Hala, Morninglord, Wachter, Von zarovich, the borcan families, mordent, dementeau, etc
maybe even replace some of the existing ones sInce some do not look that good.
i can help with this but im only interested in doing it if its actually going to go in.
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....Well if anyone knows how to edit the files of each flag, we could indluce an override that changes them to the heralds of the nation's leaders/sub-heads.
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the next time we do a content hak update i hope we add flags, shields, cloaks and surcoats that are relevant to the setting.
Ezra, Hala, Morninglord, Wachter, Von zarovich, the borcan families, mordent, dementeau, etc
maybe even replace some of the existing ones sInce some do not look that good.
i can help with this but im only interested in doing it if its actually going to go in.
We can't put stuff into a hak that doesn't exist. Someone would have to make these things (and make them well) first.
....Well if anyone knows how to edit the files of each flag, we could indluce an override that changes them to the heralds of the nation's leaders/sub-heads.
As I've already said, the flags shown in this thread aren't canon and aren't really appropriate.
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the next time we do a content hak update i hope we add flags, shields, cloaks and surcoats that are relevant to the setting.
Ezra, Hala, Morninglord, Wachter, Von zarovich, the borcan families, mordent, dementeau, etc
maybe even replace some of the existing ones sInce some do not look that good.
i can help with this but im only interested in doing it if its actually going to go in.
We can't put stuff into a hak that doesn't exist. Someone would have to make these things (and make them well) first.
....Well if anyone knows how to edit the files of each flag, we could indluce an override that changes them to the heralds of the nation's leaders/sub-heads.
As I've already said, the flags shown in this thread aren't canon and aren't really appropriate.
Could we not tweak to add it in anyway?
On the other hand, flags are a pretty "modern" thing in the world to. Banners sure, but national flags was uncommon. I think the first national flag was the Danish?
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the next time we do a content hak update i hope we add flags, shields, cloaks and surcoats that are relevant to the setting.
Ezra, Hala, Morninglord, Wachter, Von zarovich, the borcan families, mordent, dementeau, etc
maybe even replace some of the existing ones sInce some do not look that good.
i can help with this but im only interested in doing it if its actually going to go in.
We can't put stuff into a hak that doesn't exist. Someone would have to make these things (and make them well) first.
....Well if anyone knows how to edit the files of each flag, we could indluce an override that changes them to the heralds of the nation's leaders/sub-heads.
As I've already said, the flags shown in this thread aren't canon and aren't really appropriate.
Could we not tweak to add it in anyway?
On the other hand, flags are a pretty "modern" thing in the world to. Banners sure, but national flags was uncommon. I think the first national flag was the Danish?
I was trying to politely state that I don't want these flags in the module. No offense to the person who created them or to Venge, but they're not appropriate, and some of them don't even make sense.
If we were to include any flags/banners at all, they should be the ones from these links:
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleum/Heraldry_MikesAdamis.html
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleum/Heraldry_of_the_Core.html
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Well we do have uncanon things on the server. But I understand. I guess it is to much work for so little anyway.
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I was trying to politely state that I don't want these flags in the module. No offense to the person who created them or to Venge, but they're not appropriate, and some of them don't even make sense.
If we were to include any flags/banners at all, they should be the ones from these links:
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleum/Heraldry_MikesAdamis.html
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleum/Heraldry_of_the_Core.html
No offense to the person who created those, but I want to politely state I don't want those flags in the module either.
The majority of them don't exactly look as if they were created by a professional artist. Nor by an adult, to be blunt.
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We have a lot of talented artists. I think it would be cool if they re-did the flags and coat-of-arms featured in the the links you provided, Blue.
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The actual styles aren't bad from the links, if someone from the community were to remake them.
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I was trying to politely state that I don't want these flags in the module. No offense to the person who created them or to Venge, but they're not appropriate, and some of them don't even make sense.
If we were to include any flags/banners at all, they should be the ones from these links:
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleum/Heraldry_MikesAdamis.html
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleum/Heraldry_of_the_Core.html
No offense to the person who created those, but I want to politely state I don't want those flags in the module either.
The majority of them don't exactly look as if they were created by a professional artist. Nor by an adult, to be blunt.
They look like they were done in the Middle Ages, when people were not professional artists and few people had classical training in the arts.
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I was trying to politely state that I don't want these flags in the module. No offense to the person who created them or to Venge, but they're not appropriate, and some of them don't even make sense.
If we were to include any flags/banners at all, they should be the ones from these links:
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleum/Heraldry_MikesAdamis.html
http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleum/Heraldry_of_the_Core.html
No offense to the person who created those, but I want to politely state I don't want those flags in the module either.
The majority of them don't exactly look as if they were created by a professional artist. Nor by an adult, to be blunt.
They look like they were done in the Middle Ages, when people were not professional artists and few people had classical training in the arts.
I think they look like they were done in Microsoft Paint. The Middle Ages had some pretty damn impressive art and nifty family crests.
Although I agree that the quality of the artwork is going to be directly related to how advanced the culture in that country or domain is.
Either way, with the exception of a few images those flags would look out of place when compared to the original aesthetics of the game, in my opinion.
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I can appreciate the interest and effort whoever created them put into the flags, but I agree they would seem out of place. Vallaki and more so the Village are dark and dreary, in a state of decay. Maybe in Dement or in Sithicus colorful banners or flags would be more in line with the themes.
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I can appreciate the interest and effort whoever created them put into the flags, but I agree they would seem out of place. Vallaki and more so the Village are dark and dreary, in a state of decay. Maybe in Dement or in Sithicus colorful banners or flags would be more in line with the themes.
The colors of the original flags of this thread are not the problem. It's that they're too modern in feel and design, and that the symbolism doesn't match. Firstly, as I said earlier in the thread, the idea of a "national flag" is far too modern.
And then there's the symbolism used. Barovia's "flag" has a crown. Why? Neither Strahd nor his father were kings and neither of them wore a crown. Dementlieu's "flag" has a cannon. Again, why? Dementlieu may use gunpowder in its military, but it doesn't have much of a military to speak of. It is a peaceful nation that exports fashion and art and literature. Why on earth would their flag have a weapon on it? The other symbols are too abstract for a medieval society. Medieval banners were often "busier" than modern flags and often had animals as symbols, either real or mythical (lions, bears, eagles, griffons, unicorns, etc.) and the family name and/or motto, and so on.
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Actually. I can see Kartakass being more detailed with their artwork, being that is the land of the Arts so to speak, but as it's been said. The setting is supposed to be more of a medieval setting that is dark, gothic and it doesn't make sense to have pretty, over the top flags. Too much color in a world that's supposed to be dark and scary :P
The colors of the original flags of this thread are not the problem. It's that they're too modern in feel and design, and that the symbolism doesn't match. Firstly, as I said earlier in the thread, the idea of a "national flag" is far too modern.
And then there's the symbolism used. Barovia's "flag" has a crown. Why? Neither Strahd nor his father were kings and neither of them wore a crown. Dementlieu's "flag" has a cannon. Again, why? Dementlieu may use gunpowder in its military, but it doesn't have much of a military to speak of. It is a peaceful nation that exports fashion and art and literature. Why on earth would their flag have a weapon on it? The other symbols are too abstract for a medieval society. Medieval banners were often "busier" than modern flags and often had animals as symbols, either real or mythical (lions, bears, eagles, griffons, unicorns, etc.) and the family name and/or motto, and so on.
And there's that ^ :D
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I think the graphics used for Dementlieuse sigils in this thread hit the right note:
http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=28877.msg353010#msg353010 (http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=28877.msg353010#msg353010)
That said, those sigils would also be too brightly saturated if you were to implement them in-game.
But they do strike the right balance between stylised graphics and maintaining a certain level of detail.
(Except the one with the angel, don't like that one. It looks a bit too stylised and thrown together.)
Of course you have to keep in mind that those are designed for Dementlieu, a domain with advanced arts.
Any crests found in Barovia would probably have far less vibrant colours and less use of colour in general.
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Flags banners are the same things.
That they are not canon, does not mean they can't be added I mean we got raduta keep now instead of zeklos.
Then there is the idea roaming around of a none canon domain
So yea saying canon has no longer become an excuse.
If you refuse to except banners cause they where none existand I suggest you read your history books again that cover the world outside America.
There was once this nation called Roman empire, I wonder how they handled the colons on the battlefield...oh right with banners.
If the flags got reworked a bit to fit the nation more I say it is a nice addition to already a great thing.
But then again not a dev made it and I think that's the true problem here now ain't it.
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Flags banners are the same things.
That they are not canon, does not mean they can't be added I mean we got raduta keep now instead of zeklos.
Then there is the idea roaming around of a none canon domain
So yea saying canon has no longer become an excuse.
If you refuse to except banners cause they where none existand I suggest you read your history books again that cover the world outside America.
There was once this nation called Roman empire, I wonder how they handled the colons on the battlefield...oh right with banners.
If the flags got reworked a bit to fit the nation more I say it is a nice addition to already a great thing.
But then again not a dev made it and I think that's the true problem here now ain't it.
Dutchy, your tone is not acceptable. Consider this an official warning.
Yes, they had flags and such since ancient times, but they were not NATIONAL flags. There was no one single "Flag of the Roman Empire." Flags representing an entire nation did not come into being until the 18th century (1700s). But I've already explained this in the thread, as well as why the flags posted are not acceptable. Please read the entire thread before commenting.
Another thing I've already explained to you: adding a "non-canon domain" is not contradicting canon. The makers of the Ravenloft setting encouraged DMs to created their own darklords and domains to add if they felt like it. These flags would contradict canon, because there are stated designs in the published books and there are stated historical periods for each domain to imitate, all of which are before the 1700s. And even after stating all that, sometimes we actually do contradict canon, but not without a good, compelling reason. These flags are not a compelling reason.
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My tone wow hold up there
I dislike vegans you don't see me giving them a warning.
Immature of you to wave your (power) around like that cause somebody disagrees, THAT behaviour is why nobody calls you out on this forum, cause those that do end up banned.
You do this often to.
Lead by example is what often is said.
So where is your warning? Just cause you are head dm you are not immune.
So yes I got a problem with that, there is nowhere I can go to complain about your behavior cause you get covered from all sides.
Yes I said it.
Il reply on the rest of your post later and more proper.
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We could although implement "Von Zarovich own flag (emblem)
I mean, there is "historical" games like Crusader Kings where they give every important family a flag of their own. It adds a bit to it. And it gives identity beyond "Random Noble knight nr:31232"
I can see the problem about it true but I do believe it would be canon to have family symbols, atleast in Port a Luciné. Even rugged middle ages families in Sweden had it. But I can also see the problem with implementing it! Barovia I guess might be really big time backwater.
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As I said alter the flags to fit the purpose.
Countries are no longer canon already so what dmg would a flag do beside making characters unefied behind a symbol?
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My tone wow hold up there
You do this often to.
Lead by example is what often is said.
So where is your warning? Just cause you are head dm you are not immune.
So yes I got a problem with that, there is nowhere I can go to complain about your behavior cause you get covered from all sides.
Yes I said it.
Il reply on the rest of your post later and more proper.
I do not act the same as you dutchy. I can be blunt at times, but I try my best to stay civil. You are regularly combative, denigrating, contrarian and sometimes even insulting to people, usually those on staff. The staff doesn't need to put up with it, and as owner of these forums it's my right to let people know when they're out of line. And if you want to argue about moderation, do it in PMs, not on the public forums.
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In terms of historical accuracy I have read that our modern idea of a 'nation' stems from the French revolution.
Also, medieval illustrators likely had very different philosophies about how to properly illustrate than is the norm nowadays.
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My tone wow hold up there
You do this often to.
Lead by example is what often is said.
So where is your warning? Just cause you are head dm you are not immune.
So yes I got a problem with that, there is nowhere I can go to complain about your behavior cause you get covered from all sides.
Yes I said it.
Il reply on the rest of your post later and more proper.
I do not act the same as you dutchy. I can be blunt at times, but I try my best to stay civil. You are regularly combative, denigrating, contrarian and sometimes even insulting to people, usually those on staff. The staff doesn't need to put up with it, and as owner of these forums it's my right to let people know when they're out of line. And if you want to argue about moderation, do it in PMs, not on the public forums.
So if this happend on the street. I should have walked home and called you up to not make a scene when I got called out.???
You called me out and I responded in this topic as you are doing now in the same manner, you did bot send me a pm no you publicly called me out so I respond the same way.
Do not know what you are used to where you are from, but here we settle things out in the open without a problem or bitter feelings afterwards.
so no I do not accept your warning, you fail often at being civil as I do as being subtle.
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I like something like this for a general Barovian flag idea.
The Raven (and ironically) Sun
(http://www.warstore.co.uk/ekmps/shops/marlina/images/odinicraven-viking-raven-banner-4-x-3-flag-4461-p.jpg)
Plus, going with Black and Red would provide a historical precedent why the Red Vardo chose those colors.
In reality this was an old viking flag
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We could although implement "Von Zarovich own flag (emblem)
I mean, there is "historical" games like Crusader Kings where they give every important family a flag of their own. It adds a bit to it. And it gives identity beyond "Random Noble knight nr:31232"
I can see the problem about it true but I do believe it would be canon to have family symbols, atleast in Port a Luciné. Even rugged middle ages families in Sweden had it. But I can also see the problem with implementing it! Barovia I guess might be really big time backwater.
Sure, that would be nice, and family crests would be more appropriate than national flags.
In terms of historical accuracy I have read that our modern idea of a 'nation' stems from the French revolution.
Also, medieval illustrators likely had very different philosophies about how to properly illustrate than is the norm nowadays.
Right, well the whole "national flag" arose from ships "flying their colors" in the early 1700s. Having a simple flag recognizable from a distance was an important way to let other ships know you aren't a bunch of pirates (but it also ended up being a easy way for pirates to trick others). This eventually spread to use on land as well once those ship flags became the accepted symbols of their nations. Still a relatively modern concept, and unlikely to arise that way in Ravenloft since its seas are almost un-navigable.
Totally agree on the symbolism.
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Would be more fitting for more Slavic designs than Saxon inspired for Barovian hereditary and battle banners. I can imagine they'd exist since it's one of the few Domains with an actual military history of campaigns fought against other nations.
Not very clear but this is what I mean by those banners as opposed to a singular national flag:
(http://www.littlebigmenstudios.com/catalog/images/15mm%20Dark%20Age%20Banners%202.jpg)
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My tone wow hold up there
You do this often to.
Lead by example is what often is said.
So where is your warning? Just cause you are head dm you are not immune.
So yes I got a problem with that, there is nowhere I can go to complain about your behavior cause you get covered from all sides.
Yes I said it.
Il reply on the rest of your post later and more proper.
I do not act the same as you dutchy. I can be blunt at times, but I try my best to stay civil. You are regularly combative, denigrating, contrarian and sometimes even insulting to people, usually those on staff. The staff doesn't need to put up with it, and as owner of these forums it's my right to let people know when they're out of line. And if you want to argue about moderation, do it in PMs, not on the public forums.
So if this happend on the street. I should have walked home and called you up to not make a scene when I got called out.???
You called me out and I responded in this topic as you are doing now in the same manner, you did bot send me a pm no you publicly called me out so I respond the same way.
Do not know what you are used to where you are from, but here we settle things out in the open without a problem or bitter feelings afterwards.
so no I do not accept your warning, you fail often at being civil as I do as being subtle.
Enough. You're distracting from the discussion.
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On that I can agree
Ontopic
What most wish is a code of arms and such as pirates had for their vessels.
They don't mean nation wise, yes be nice if it was nation wise, but just banners in general could be a nice addition.
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Lamordia's really the only country in the Core with an actual honest-to-goodness navy, if memory serves. Even so, I think countries like Dementlieu (where there would be a fair amount of nationalism and pride in the culture they export), Falkovnia (where the state is supreme), Zherisia/Paridon, and Nosos (both being incredibly advanced) would have flags, though I think Dementlieu would still be steeped in factionalism due to all the different noble families vying for power.
I do like the idea of family crests being prominent in Dementlieu, incidentally, which is part of the reason why I made those crests for each major noble family in Dementlieu, back when I was a DM (some families featured being canon, others being home-brew, to be used in events that I ran).
Edit: Apparently, Azalin has doubled the size of his own navy to deal with piracy near Martira Bay!
Well, with all the talk of pirates and ships, bumping this with some more information on piracy in the Core. I was curious to know where pirates lived since that was brought up in the Blaustein topic, so I looked at the coastal domains to see if there were any mentions. Turns out there are quite a few pirate havens on the coasts of the Core and they tend to prey on towns and harbors.
In the Sea of Sorrows, Martira Bay is a pirate haven (Gaz II, Darkon section) because it is dotted with many small islands that are the lairs of pirates and smugglers. Recently, Azalin doubled the size of his navy and his biggest ship (whose name I forgot) is stationed right at Martira Bay.
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Lamordia's really the only country in the Core with an actual honest-to-goodness navy, if memory serves. Even so, I think countries like Dementlieu (where there would be a fair amount of nationalism and pride in the culture they export), Falkovnia (where the state is supreme), Zherisia/Paridon, and Nosos (both being incredibly advanced) would have flags, though I think Dementlieu would still be steeped in factionalism due to all the different noble families vying for power.
I do like the idea of family crests being prominent in Dementlieu, incidentally, which is part of the reason why I made those crests for each major noble family in Dementlieu, back when I was a DM (some families featured being canon, others being home-brew, to be used in events that I ran).
Qoute from "Adam's Wrath" on Lamordia's banner thing "In Summer, bright red and yellow banners bearing the Von Aubrecker crest (A black Eagle) fly from the battlements..."
(http://oi41.tinypic.com/4q32g9.jpg)
Giving that the country while ruled under a Barony, has republic settlements.. I can see the ships flying the Aubrecker crests if they need to be identified.
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I think Nova Vaasa has a warship that they use to deal with pirates affecting trade going on in the Nocturnal Sea, but not much more than that. The Nocturnal Sea is probably even more dangerous than the Sea of Sorrows, given you have islands all over the place that you run the risk of running a-ground on.
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Is there an actual family crest, sigil or flag for the Wachter Family? I do know they use the colours yellow, red and blue, but I can't find out what it would look like.
Judging from the guard uniforms the yellow appears to be the primary colour, with dark red for the borders, so I am speculating that blue is used for the details?
Either way I haven't found any canon source that reveals what the actual crest looks like, but am I correct in guessing it might be based off of the image below?
It is apparently the sort of crest associated with the slavic Wachter noble family surname, according to sources from google. Might just be a strange coincedence.
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/4crests_2296_328074945)
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Is there an actual family crest, sigil or flag for the Wachter Family? I do know they use the colours yellow, red and blue, but I can't find out what it would look like.
Judging from the guard uniforms the yellow appears to be the primary colour, with dark red for the borders, so I am speculating that blue is used for the details?
Either way I haven't found any canon source that reveals what the actual crest looks like, but am I correct in guessing it might be based off of the image below?
It is apparently the sort of crest associated with the slavic Wachter noble family surname, according to sources from google. Might just be a strange coincedence.
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/4crests_2296_328074945)
Correct assumption. The Coat of arms is an inspiration, not something in stone. The Blue on that Coat of Arms is out of place.
My notes & inspirations in developing this (Actual dev process) the Actual Design:
Idea behind the (Armors) design:
The armors are meant to be more flamboyant than the armors of Vallaki given Krezk's size and added prestige - there is clear influence from Borca given Krezk proximity with the domain. The colors represent those of Strahd's and Wachter.
Colors:
Black & Red: Strahd
Yellow: Wachters (Wachters are the last old true noble family, they have been loyal to the Von Zarovich family, thus allowed to exist and serve)
Wachter coat of arms:
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g247/Morefizzle/Wachter.jpg)
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Is there an actual family crest, sigil or flag for the Wachter Family? I do know they use the colours yellow, red and blue, but I can't find out what it would look like.
Judging from the guard uniforms the yellow appears to be the primary colour, with dark red for the borders, so I am speculating that blue is used for the details?
Either way I haven't found any canon source that reveals what the actual crest looks like, but am I correct in guessing it might be based off of the image below?
It is apparently the sort of crest associated with the slavic Wachter noble family surname, according to sources from google. Might just be a strange coincedence.
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/4crests_2296_328074945)
Correct assumption. The Coat of arms is an inspiration, not something in stone. The Blue on that Coat of Arms is out of place.
My notes & inspirations in developing this (Actual dev process) the Actual Design:
Idea behind the (Armors) design:
The armors are meant to be more flamboyant than the armors of Vallaki given Krezk's size and added prestige - there is clear influence from Borca given Krezk proximity with the domain. The colors represent those of Strahd's and Wachter.
Colors:
Black & Red: Strahd
Yellow: Wachters (Wachters are the last old true noble family, they have been loyal to the Von Zarovich family, thus allowed to exist and serve)
Wachter coat of arms:
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g247/Morefizzle/Wachter.jpg)
We cant use that image Heretic. I checked. its copyrighted. But now knowing what you like/ want i'll come up with something for you to give feedback on
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Isn't it to "frillsy" for Barovia anyway?
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As I said, its not something we are using, its where the inspiration comes from, when it comes to designing the armors. The Wachter don't have a coat of arms of their own, nothing has been made.
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I assumed it had blue because the yellow letter message when you enter the Wachter outpost gives some kind of description that mentions a red, yellow and blue crest.
Might need to update that message and change it to black instead then.
What kind of symbol would be on the crest if it was made though? Guessing a crown would be implemented somewhere, to indicate ties to the Von Zarovich family.
To me a tower seems fitting for the Wachter side, but that's mostly because wachter coincedentally translates to guard in dutch. And birds are just neat to have.
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I assumed it had blue because the yellow letter message when you enter the Wachter outpost gives some kind of description that mentions a red, yellow and blue crest.
Might need to update that message and change it to black instead then.
Thanks for pointing it to me, started devving these areas in 2011.
Some stuff, just needs its update.
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So I thought this was the Barovian flag?
(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/b/be-vovmw.gif)
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So I thought this was the Barovian flag?
(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/b/be-vovmw.gif)
Looks legit, pretty sure it features in Domains of Dread.
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As I said, its not something we are using, its where the inspiration comes from, when it comes to designing the armors. The Wachter don't have a coat of arms of their own, nothing has been made.
Barovia got colours? :lol:
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How's this grab you heretic?
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_yellow_zpsf2f3b645.png) (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_red_zpsebb2959c.png)
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_black_zps33f392c6.png) (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_trans_zpse6deac82.png)
Shield
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_shield_zps0178d489.png)
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How's this grab you heretic?
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_yellow_zpsf2f3b645.png) (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_red_zpsebb2959c.png)
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_black_zps33f392c6.png) (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_trans_zpse6deac82.png)
Shield
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_shield_zps0178d489.png)
Very cool.
Would be nice, a wolf & a raven...
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I'll see what i can do thats a good idea! :)
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Having a wolf and a raven together might be too similar to the Von Zarovich crest, though.
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Those are nicely done!
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Having a wolf and a raven together might be too similar to the Von Zarovich crest, though.
Yeah, on second thought.
Try the wolf alone, if possible.
They look awesome, by the way.
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I assumed it had blue because the yellow letter message when you enter the Wachter outpost gives some kind of description that mentions a red, yellow and blue crest.
Might need to update that message and change it to black instead then.
Actually, that's Bato's work.
Gonna check which area it is & change it.
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Border Outpost Zeklos, El Tigre.
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Border Outpost Zeklos, El Tigre.
Gracias, amigo.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlanvFkIR2s[/youtube]
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heh.. i just saw the new posts after i came to put up the Raven & Wolf
it would of been so much easier to make just a wolf lol.. anyway here is the Wolf & Raven.. ill post a Wolf version shortly
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest2_zps1ec277ac.png)
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Goddamn mexicans and your hats and style.
Awesome flags Mon!
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Variation 2 w/ Raven
Wolf version
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_wolf2_zpsee64a409.png) (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_wolf2b_zps9311e06e.png)
I think this one is too 'cheerful' for Barovia, but a different variation for you
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_wolf_zps352ca7d5.png)
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Nice work. Have you considered giving "Variant 2 w/ Raven" a yellow background with red eyes instead? I think that'd look even better.
I like how you didn't just go for pure black to preserve the details, I'd go a little bit darker though as it comes dangerously close to gray.
I did like the one with the raven and the red wolves as well, although simplicity for the crest itself and one iconic animal is probably best.
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Nice work. Have you considered giving "Variant 2 w/ Raven" a yellow background with red eyes instead? I think that'd look even better.
I like how you didn't just go for pure black to preserve the details, I'd go a little bit darker though as it comes dangerously close to gray.
Could always invert the grey and the black. Thus the grey would be the detail, black would be the base color.
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Yellow shield, darker wolf, red eyes as requested
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_wolf2c_zps6e90cadb.png)
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Definitely my favourite option so far.
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Yeah, that one looks awesome. Nice work!
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Blue approves. If heretic does then I guess thats final then :D
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Yellow shield, darker wolf, red eyes as requested
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_wolf2c_zps6e90cadb.png)
A+
Awesome.
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But... Where's the blue? There should be an earth shattering blue!
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But... Where's the blue? There should be an earth shattering blue!
read the thread. Heretic said there should be no blue
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so consider these final I guess folks xD
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_wolf2c_zps6e90cadb.png) (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/wachter_crest_wolf2c_ver2_zpsaa6ff6a0.png)
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What about Ionelus :D
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Ionelus are not nobles.
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Wachters are the only living "true nobles" in Barovia, outside of the Zarovich family. That being said there are several "new bloods" all over Barovia attempting to establish themselves from the "high offices" they gained due to their importance to their commmunities/how hard they've fang-banged with Strahd or his emissaries. Whatever keeps the taxes flowing.
Along these lines, I am sure that these "lesser names", like the Ionescus, probably having sigils or heraldry. They are a mockery of real nobility, but that is what they probably all think of themselves. lol.
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If people want to make them 'Crests', I'll give you a list of 'little nobles' in Barovia, along with some creative direction.
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Excuse me.
But Ionelus could still have a family eblem if they are a family of importance, that I am sure of. They are not lowborns! :mrgreen:
Also, isn't the Wachter "Flag" bit too frillsy? With the helmet and the yellow tentacle things....uh ribbons? I just looked at two south-eastern European provinces and their symbols! Pretty simple minus the crown if we look around the shields.
This is Wallachias symbol
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Coat_of_arms_of_Wallachia.svg/360px-Coat_of_arms_of_Wallachia.svg.png)
This is Transylvanias symbol
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Coat_of_arms_of_Transylvania.svg/500px-Coat_of_arms_of_Transylvania.svg.png)
EDIT:
Oh also! Some useless information! The helmet is probably a frogmouth!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frog-mouth_helm :mrgreen:
(http://www.mai.liu.se/~laale/Heraldik/Vapen/Soedermanland.gif)
It do also look a bit like Södermanlands "weapon" in Sweden, lol. Neato.
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Also, isn't the Wachter "Flag" bit too frillsy? With the helmet and the yellow tentacle things....uh ribbons? I just looked at two south-eastern European provinces and their symbols! Pretty simple minus the crown if we look around the shields.
What you are describing is the entire crest as a whole, that's not going to be slapped on a flag like that.
If you were to put it on a flag, it'd just be a yellow flag with the black wolf on it, possibly with a red border.
Basically the content within the shield is generally the part that will always appear on the flags and shields.
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Also, isn't the Wachter "Flag" bit too frillsy? With the helmet and the yellow tentacle things....uh ribbons? I just looked at two south-eastern European provinces and their symbols! Pretty simple minus the crown if we look around the shields.
What you are describing is the entire crest as a whole, that's not going to be slapped on a flag like that.
If you were to put it on a flag, it'd just be a yellow flag with the black wolf on it, possibly with a red border.
I just think the crest itself, is ill fiting for Barovia. But thats understandable.
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Here is a list of Canon & semi-canon noble families of Barovia - we could discuss them and decide what we do.
Below, Old Canon Families - extinct families: http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Category:Family_of_Barovia (http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Category:Family_of_Barovia)
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Buchvold Family : Note - this family particularly interests me for plot reasons.
Ivilskova Family
Katsky Family
Petrovna Family : http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Category:Petrovna_Family - This one is interesting if we ever get Ge'hena implemented.
Triksky Family
Velikovna Family
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Ionelus - Interest in this, for obvious reasons
Marusca - Fishing experts family in Vallaki
Dolevina (Not so much noble but they have influence and means - they are gundarakites)
Von Zeklos (Extinct)
Roche (Previous Burgomaster's of Vallaki.) - This family interests me for plot reasons.
Antoanetas - Canon, wine producers, not in module yet.
Luminitus - Canon wine producers
Romuliches - Canon wine producers
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Marusca - Fishing experts family in Vallaki
Some of their crest has already been decided on, right? You notice something if you pass through the residential district.
There's a yellow descriptive message about a fishing family crest, something about a trident and fish if I remember it right.
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Some of their crest has already been decided on, right? You notice something if you pass through the residential district.
There's a yellow descriptive message about a fishing family crest, something about a trident and fish if I remember it right.
If you can find that reference, post it here please.
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Some of their crest has already been decided on, right? You notice something if you pass through the residential district.
There's a yellow descriptive message about a fishing family crest, something about a trident and fish if I remember it right.
If you can find that reference, post it here please.
Nevermind, it refers to the Trouther family sigil, not the Marusca family. The Trouther sigil is a fish being speared by a trident.
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If there isn't anything canon for Ionelus, I suggest the unconventional coat of arms colours of brown and gray (I guess to fit the already existing Vallaki color scheme, and the fact that Vallaki is the 'Grey City' after all)
Sigil would probably be a tower or something to represent the citadel and if you want an animal in there for the GoT fueding families vibe, it would be on top of the tower
(just like how the Burgomeister's residence is at the top of the citadel)
(http://i.imgur.com/JWNwfQ6.png)
Here's a quick and simple one I made with probably one of the best CoA makers around, the animal in this case isn't their own specific one but Barovia's/von Zarovich Raven
http://inkwellideas.com/coat_of_arms/free-version/
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We actually used those blue and white chevron banners to represent Vallaki. That doesn't necessarily have to mean that they also represent the Ionelus family, though. There could be one banner for each.
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If there isn't anything canon for Ionelus, I suggest the unconventional coat of arms colours of brown and gray (I guess to fit the already existing Vallaki color scheme, and the fact that Vallaki is the 'Grey City' after all)
I thought they were just poor and didn't really have a colour scheme, just undyed brown leather and chainmail for their militia garda.
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If there isn't anything canon for Ionelus, I suggest the unconventional coat of arms colours of brown and gray (I guess to fit the already existing Vallaki color scheme, and the fact that Vallaki is the 'Grey City' after all)
I thought they were just poor and didn't really have a colour scheme, just undyed brown leather and chainmail for their militia garda.
This would make sense. The only truly wealthy family in Barovia is the Wachters, thus they have the cheddar to throw at such things
And after the general built all those new fortifications? I'm sure Vallaki's coffers are drained out the wazzoo. Just hope the DM team will take into account a little bit of the economics of such an affair, though I trust they already have.
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If there isn't anything canon for Ionelus, I suggest the unconventional coat of arms colours of brown and gray (I guess to fit the already existing Vallaki color scheme, and the fact that Vallaki is the 'Grey City' after all)
I thought they were just poor and didn't really have a colour scheme, just undyed brown leather and chainmail for their militia garda.
Well I just chose brown for lack of a better one, since their garda (including the honor guard) wear those colors
We actually used those blue and white chevron banners to represent Vallaki. That doesn't necessarily have to mean that they also represent the Ionelus family, though. There could be one banner for each.
Fair enough given the banners available I guess, though imo a more greyish banner (again highlighting this whole 'Grey City' niche) might be more fitting
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I do think the Ionelus family has some kind of sigil, since their personal funds are most likely seperate.
Just wanted to point out the Vallaki garda aren't typically trained professional soldiers for hire, but more like militia.
So they don't wear any colours, that is just the colour of the undyed leather, but brown is as good a guess as any.
Brown usually doesn't work too well for banners though, too muddy. But grey, white and blue would make sense.
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I do think the Ionelus family has some kind of sigil, since their personal funds are most likely seperate.
Just wanted to point out the Vallaki garda aren't typically trained professional soldiers for hire, but more like militia.
So they don't wear any colours, that is just the colour of the undyed leather, but brown is as good a guess as any.
Brown usually doesn't work too well for banners though, too muddy. But grey, white and blue would make sense.
Grey and white for sure, don't know how the blue would fit in though, no other indication but the existing banners, I guess
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Also a historical note - Ionelus just lives in the citadel. It was built by the Tergs. as was Castle Ravenloft.
What do you think of this? Simple but effective (I think)
- Citadel
- Halberd
- Raven
Two variations, one with the Raven holding the Halberd and one with it below.
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/Ionelus_crest_zpse8119772.png) (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/monsinyana2/Ionelus_crest2_zps97c9267c.png)
Although I like Forsaken_Warrior's as well
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Looks good, though IMO I think only the Von Zarovich should have the raven as their central symbol, the others should just have it as minor decorations
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I would still ditch the brown part, it just isn't a great colour to use for a sigil.
Other than that it looks good, possibly a bit too fancy with the jeweled halberd.
I agree with the reply above though, I wouldn't give the Ionelus family a raven.
(The tower and halberd idea work, possibly an entirely different animal like an ox.)
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The brown on those banners looks good, imho.
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It's more of a mottled gold than brown, which may represent the Ionelus even better. Considering they're trying to stake their own claim in Barovia, a bit of egotism would make sense.
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it is true that most "old" families have a crest of some kind noble or not.
so yea very fitting on the list H posted for folks to tinker on.
btw i also jump on the band wagon of the wachter symbole GJ
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Raising a topic from the dead but here are a few canon crests:
The Von Zarovich family's crest is a large black raven (as per Vampire of the Mists); there's a brief depiction of the coat of arms in Gaz I as well. (it's drastically different in Curse of Strahd but still a raven)
The Drakov family's crest is a hawk (Gaz III)
The Von Aubrecker family's crest is a black eagle (Adam's Wrath)
The ApBlanc's family crest is a mailed fist gripping a white feather
The Weathermay's family crest is a pair of hounds on either side of an open book, which has the family motto inscribed on it; Motto: "None would survive but for the efforts of those whom history has forgotten. (all Mordent families's crests, including the Weathermay's, are depicted in Gaz III)
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Borca has a canon insignia, page 28 of Gazeteer 4.
"The Borcan insignia depicts a black and silver serpent on a burgundy field, its coils severed into nine parts and flanked by nine silver stars. Officially, it symbolizes the nine original city-states of Borjia, though cynics muse that it now aptly represents the foundations of Borcan culture: Wine, wealth, and trechary."